25967 replies to this topic

[tjv]

My personal rule is if you can't give from the heart......then don't give at all. 

 

I myself participate in the charities that hit home the closest with me. There are way too many charities out there to pick from, so I say pick one that you have the most empathy for.  This will be different for everyone, as it's a personal thing.  It could be volunteering at the Mustard Seed, it could be helping out at  soup kitchen, it could be helping to clear invasive plants and shrubs in a park, it could be helping out a single parent during the Christmas season etc. 

 

One thing is for sure.....if feels good to give.

I've seen it first hand, back in my university days living in a poorer section of town.  I saw the people living around me had a system, a free meal from the soup kitchen, free clothes from a charity, welfare paid their rent, etc, etc.  Everything left on their welfare check and some cash work was for their vice - smoke, drugs, alcohol, etc, etc.  There was zero reason for them to get off the system and I am sure they are still on the system to this day.

 

My mother was doing some volunteering down at Our Place in the soup kitchen.  The problem was none of the people who used it were expected to do anything.  It was even ok for them to leave their plates, glasses on the table, etc like they were in a restaurant and the volunteers had to clean up after them.  Then she given a schedule like she was an employee and she stopped going in disgust.  WTF again!!!!!!!  

 

Are you just giving blindly to charities or are you vetting them?  I would say 99.99999% of these charities are just allowing people to remain on the system, enabling them, instead of empowering them to get off the system and that I have a serious problem with

 

Now I will say that the one section of charity that does pull my heart strings are related to children, simply because they didn't decide who their parents were.  I will give something to those charities, but it also makes me wonder if the parents are thinking "all right free gifts for my kids, more money for drugs"

 

What's wrong with asking the people to use the system to volunteer their time.  Want a free meal?  well you can stir the pot of soup, or wash the dishes, mop the floor, sweep the sidewalk, etc, etc?  Maybe they will think, hey maybe I should just get a job it would be less work!!!!!

 

On another note a few years ago my family raised about 100k for a little girl in Haiti that had a heart defect and was going to die.  The money raised we flew her to Canada, had a surgeon friend perform the surgery (we had to pay the hospital for use of the operating room, equipment, support staff, etc).  Today, that little girl is alive and well and thankful everyday although I didn't do it for the thanks

 

Now lets compare that to a junkie deadbeat here who overdosed.  Picked up by the ambulance, stabilized, dealt at the hospital, etc and wakes up thinking "I'll have eggs over easy, toast with jam and apple no no orange juice" and is trying to figure out how to score money to get their drugs again tonight.   The bill:  $0.00

[Hotel Mike]

I agree that you should give to those organizations that come close to what you believe in. I would add that it's good to go with a charity that has low management fees, and where your donation goes mainly directly towards helping people out. One I like a lot is Médicins sans frontiere, Doctors Without Borders. They take no corporate money at all. 

 

But I usually make my single largest donation each year to the United Way. They support many small, local charities, and are strongly supported by the community. I seem to remember in my working days, that there were ways to support the United Way through a payroll deduction.

[spanky123]

I don't doubt that the United Way does a lot of good, my objection is that they spend an extremely high percentage of their donations on admin and fundraising costs.

 

https://apps.cra-arc...&fpe=2018-03-31

[Mystic-Pizza]

I've seen it first hand, back in my university days living in a poorer section of town.  I saw the people living around me had a system, a free meal from the soup kitchen, free clothes from a charity, welfare paid their rent, etc, etc.  Everything left on their welfare check and some cash work was for their vice - smoke, drugs, alcohol, etc, etc.  There was zero reason for them to get off the system and I am sure they are still on the system to this day.

 

My mother was doing some volunteering down at Our Place in the soup kitchen.  The problem was none of the people who used it were expected to do anything.  It was even ok for them to leave their plates, glasses on the table, etc like they were in a restaurant and the volunteers had to clean up after them.  Then she given a schedule like she was an employee and she stopped going in disgust.  WTF again!!!!!!!  

 

Are you just giving blindly to charities or are you vetting them?  I would say 99.99999% of these charities are just allowing people to remain on the system, enabling them, instead of empowering them to get off the system and that I have a serious problem with

 

Now I will say that the one section of charity that does pull my heart strings are related to children, simply because they didn't decide who their parents were.  I will give something to those charities, but it also makes me wonder if the parents are thinking "all right free gifts for my kids, more money for drugs"

 

What's wrong with asking the people to use the system to volunteer their time.  Want a free meal?  well you can stir the pot of soup, or wash the dishes, mop the floor, sweep the sidewalk, etc, etc?  Maybe they will think, hey maybe I should just get a job it would be less work!!!!!

 

On another note a few years ago my family raised about 100k for a little girl in Haiti that had a heart defect and was going to die.  The money raised we flew her to Canada, had a surgeon friend perform the surgery (we had to pay the hospital for use of the operating room, equipment, support staff, etc).  Today, that little girl is alive and well and thankful everyday although I didn't do it for the thanks

 

Now lets compare that to a junkie deadbeat here who overdosed.  Picked up by the ambulance, stabilized, dealt at the hospital, etc and wakes up thinking "I'll have eggs over easy, toast with jam and apple no no orange juice" and is trying to figure out how to score money to get their drugs again tonight.   The bill:  $0.00

 

Many of the people that use the services DO volunteer at the places they use. I've seen it with my own two eyes when I myself was someone that used a soup kitchen many, many years ago and also ended up volunteering there.  Reasons exist why only "Some" of the people that use the services are volunteering at them. This includes mental health(which is the big one) , medical issues such as communicable diseases where they can't handle the food in the soup kitchens or have something that is contagious. In the case of the OP's point.....the Mustard seed wants experienced trained carpenters or those with carpentry skills to build the check out centres (not people who have never held a hammer or used a saw) 

 

As far as people leaving their plates on the table at a soup kitchen.......well the entire idea behind that is to make them feel "Normal" for a short time each day. A feeling like they were in a regular restaurant getting the same service as someone who was not on the street or poor. It's does wonders for their mental health if just once a day they can be treated like a regular person.  However, anyone who wants to volunteer is free to ask if they can do so. 

 

Sure lots of these people use CHARITY as a way of lifestyle, but a good portion of them can't function in a job or even in a regular societal setting do to severe mental illness (which affects a very large majority of them) So what do we do as a society, completely sweep them under the rug and make them live and forage for food and discarded items at city landfills like they do in 3rd world countries?  I know people that couldn't last a single shift at a job because of their mental illness that they never chose to have.

 

At the end of the day it boils down to compassion. If it bothers you to give to one charity while not another....then go that route.  Me, I tend to give to families, single parents and that sort of thing because it's transparent, the donations or food, or clothes goes directly to an individual or family in need etc.

Edited by Mystic-Pizza, 26 November 2018 - 09:31 AM.

[Love the rock]

Many of the people that use the services DO volunteer at the places they use. I've seen it with my own two eyes when I myself was someone that used a soup kitchen many, many years ago and also ended up volunteering there.  Reasons exist why only "Some" of the people that use the services are volunteering at them. This includes mental health(which is the big one) , medical issues such as communicable diseases where they can't handle the food in the soup kitchens or have something that is contagious. In the case of the OP's point.....the Mustard seed wants experienced trained carpenters or those with carpentry skills to build the check out centres (not people who have never held a hammer or used a saw) 
 
As far as people leaving their plates on the table at a soup kitchen.......well the entire idea behind that is to make them feel "Normal" for a short time each day. A feeling like they were in a regular restaurant getting the same service as someone who was not on the street or poor. It's does wonders for their mental health if just once a day they can be treated like a regular person.  However, anyone who wants to volunteer is free to ask if they can do so. 
 
Sure lots of these people use CHARITY as a way of lifestyle, but a good portion of them can't function in a job or even in a regular societal setting do to severe mental illness (which affects a very large majority of them) So what do we do as a society, completely sweep them under the rug and make them live and forage for food and discarded items at city landfills like they do in 3rd world countries?  I know people that couldn't last a single shift at a job because of their mental illness that they never chose to have.
 
At the end of the day it boils down to compassion. If it bothers you to give to one charity while not another....then go that route.  Me, I tend to give to families, single parents and that sort of thing because it's transparent, the donations or food, or clothes goes directly to an individual or family in need etc.

Some common sense points here .I personally think pretty much everyone could benefit from volunteering who uses services. After all these people aren’t bed ridden they get themselves to the services they use on their own steam . They feed themselves.People feel better about themselves and appreciate more anything they work for . A tiny job once a day hand out tickets ,put something away ,take out the garbage,hold open the door pick up garbage in front of the building,count the people ....anything .It isn’t as efficient to give out jobs and it takes more work but it could be the push they need .Its mentally satisfying to have a purpose.As for the statement the thought behind making it a restaurant style to make people feel normal how many normal people eat all their meals at restaurants. They don’t ...stop enabling . You teach your children how to brush their teeth you don’t keep brushing them because it quicker .Most children do learn .
Pick up your own dishes that is a job .
We are not a third world country we do have safety nets in place unlike the poor who are forced to dig in garbage dumps .Charity organizations are duplicating services to make sure everyone is covered in Victoria.

[N E Body]

Class warfare. Love it. Keep up the good fight against each other.

[Mystic-Pizza]

Some common sense points here .I personally think pretty much everyone could benefit from volunteering who uses services. After all these people aren’t bed ridden they get themselves to the services they use on their own steam . They feed themselves.People feel better about themselves and appreciate more anything they work for . A tiny job once a day hand out tickets ,put something away ,take out the garbage,hold open the door pick up garbage in front of the building,count the people ....anything .It isn’t as efficient to give out jobs and it takes more work but it could be the push they need .Its mentally satisfying to have a purpose.As for the statement the thought behind making it a restaurant style to make people feel normal how many normal people eat all their meals at restaurants. They don’t ...stop enabling . You teach your children how to brush their teeth you don’t keep brushing them because it quicker .Most children do learn .
Pick up your own dishes that is a job .
We are not a third world country we do have safety nets in place unlike the poor who are forced to dig in garbage dumps .Charity organizations are duplicating services to make sure everyone is covered in Victoria.

 

Everyone's motive is different for why they give. Some give out of guilt,  some give because they expect something in return (sadly I think that is the case for for many who give)  and others give to charity simply for the act of doing so.  Giving to charity to me is not so much about what happens with what I give, but the act of the giving itself.  It is an act of love towards your fellow man, mercy, and humbleness. 

 

If I make a meal for a person who needs it, am I not their host, and they are my guest? Does one expect their guest to wash the dishes or cook the food they are about to eat? Of course not. That would not make a very good host. Giving to charity or for a charitable cause should be done without condition. The act itself is both the reward and the lesson. 

Edited by Mystic-Pizza, 26 November 2018 - 01:22 PM.

[Love the rock]

Everyone's motive is different for why they give. Some give out of guilt, some give because they expect something in return (sadly I think that is the case for for many who give) and others give to charity simply for the act of doing so. Giving to charity to me is not so much about what happens with what I give, but the act of the giving itself. It is an act of love, mercy, and humbleness.

If I make a meal for a person who needs it, am I not their host, and they are my guest? Does one expect their guest to wash the dishes or cook the food they are about to eat? Of course not. That would not make a very good host. Giving to charity or for a charitable cause should be done without condition. The act itself is both the reward and the lesson.

I disagree .Usually people who come to my home for a meal offer to help clean up because that’s what adults do.Some do bring something for the group to share .
I can tell you this if you ate every meal at my house and I paid for it ,prepared it and did all the clean up and you just walked out the door day after day I’d ...well it wouldn’t workout well .
You seem to be missing my point anyways. By doing everything for someone is not kind it’s crippling .It is more labor intensive to give people small jobs than do it yourself but it gives people a positive experience. I’m sure you think your way is right and I’m the same .I also think we both have personal experiences that have formed our opinions. I agree to disagree.

Edited by Love the rock, 26 November 2018 - 01:47 PM.

[N E Body]

When I give to someone I give to someone. Once I've made that decision then it is what it is. I never ask people what they did with my wedding/birthday/whatever gift... so I don't ask what happens with anything I give to charity etc. It's theirs. ... and I refuse to judge... the cliff is always closer than you think.

[Love the rock]

When I give to someone I give to someone. Once I've made that decision then it is what it is. I never ask people what they did with my wedding/birthday/whatever gift... so I don't ask what happens with anything I give to charity etc. It's theirs. ... and I refuse to judge... the cliff is always closer than you think.

Ok I’m not sure what your referring to can you explain

[N E Body]

If you don't want to give to charity then don't give... but don't complain about and or/or judge the people who accept the charity. Even saying that charity enables them is a judgement. If they don't want to work and they want others to pay for it all, then so be it. That's on them, not on me. I either keep giving or I don't... and, either way, I shut up about it. I can't help thinking, though, that, when I do give to a charity, I might really only be helping one person in a crowd of ten... but that's the one person I meant to help in the first place.

 

It's strange Mystic that you didn't understand my comment... I basically said the same thing as you with less words.

[tjv]

I can tell you this if you ate every meal at my house and I paid for it ,prepared it and did all the clean up and you just walked out the door day after day I’d ...well it wouldn’t workout well .

Absolutely, but this is also them walking out the door without even saying thank you

 

Perhaps Mystic Pizza should buy a waiter uniform and perform table service at Our Place, seat them, bring them menus, bring them drinks, serve the meal, clean up after, etc, etc.  After all aren't these people entitled to feel a little normal????

[Love the rock]

[quote name="N E Body" post="469313" timestamp="1543275750"]If you don't want to give to charity then don't give... but don't complain about and or/or judge the people who accept the charity. Even saying that charity enables them is a judgement. If they don't want to work and they want others to pay for it all, then so be it. That's on them, not on me. I either keep giving or I don't... and, either way, I shut up about it. I can't help thinking, though, that, when I do give to a charity, I might really only be helping one person in a crowd of ten... but that's the one person I meant to help in the first place.
 
I feel that by doing everything for someone and not giving that person a job be it taking your dishes off the table whatever is crippling ,harmful and mentally unhealthy .
I judge that to be harmful to venerable people. Everyone judges it’s our duty to mankind.

[On the Level]

If you don't want to give to charity then don't give... 

 

By blindly giving, you can be doing harm.

[sdwright.vic]

Agreed... I pay CLOSE attention to what the places I give money to do with said money.

[N E Body]

 I feel that by doing everything for someone and not giving that person a job be it taking your dishes off the table whatever is crippling ,harmful and mentally unhealthy .
I judge that to be harmful to venerable people. Everyone judges it’s our duty to mankind.

 

Yeah... right... whatever.

[N E Body]

By blindly giving, you can be doing harm.

 

Well... you know the old saying...

 

“Mann Tracht, Un Gott Lacht”

[sdwright.vic]

^^ 🙄

Dismissive much?

Edited by sdwright.vic, 26 November 2018 - 07:11 PM.

[LJ]

I guess we should be setting up a "pot" bank now, for those poor folks who can't afford it. (as medicine of course)

[N E Body]

^^

Dismissive much?

 

If the shoe fits.