1070 replies to this topic

[Baro]

The use of rail themes and actually renting out old rolling stock actually sounds creative and innovative, which is shocking for victoria. I wonder how much stucco we can get on an old box car..

But seriously, so long as they do this right and most importantly the retail area is very pedestrian attractive to not just the residents but the whole neighbourhood, it will be a godsend for the area.

[hungryryno]

Those apartments along Esquimalt Rd. need to go and projects of this caliber are a step towards making the cleanup of the area a reality.

I understand that Esquimalt Road needs updating and cleaned up....
but where would you suggest the people living in these apartments go???

Housing costs continue to increase in the CRD (even while the remainder of the country is cooling down, except Vancouver) and too few seem to remotely care. At least in Langford every new development requires a percentage of units be affordable housing.

Where is a new affordable housing component to be found anywhere within the City of Victoria for these people to move to so you can have Esquimalt Road "cleaned up"?

[aastra]

I wonder, would the Vic West neighbourhood folks be receptive to new rental buildings? (The James Bay crowd was strongly opposed to new rental buildings as I'm sure we all remember.) The thing is, that property beside Vic West's lawn bowling field there is really poorly utilized. It's a huge site but half of it is devoted to surface parking. The Marriott Hotel, Astoria, and Belvedere actually occupy less space!

[Caramia]

I agree hungryryno, at this point in Victoria's history, we should consider taking an approach to low end rental that mirrors the federal approach to harbour development... ie: You can't take anything away without providing a replacement of equal value.

[Mike K.]

I wonder, would the Vic West neighbourhood folks be receptive to new rental buildings?

Dockside Green will have a rental building.

But are the economics favourable to constructing new rental buildings? Agencies representing rental building developers have already come out and said that under the current height/density restrictions there's no way more than a trickle of new stock can be built.

[UrbanRail]

As a director in the E&N Division of the CRHA (Canadian Railroad Historical Assocition), our group will be involved in the heritage/historical aspect of the project.

As far as I know there was no mention of affordable housing.

[Caramia]

According to the Committee of the Whole minutes from last month, the developer was unable to provide non-market housing, along with site remediation and heritage restoration while still maintaining the 2.0 FSR

What the developer did that represents potential for new rental stock is to create a covenant that blocks any future restriction by strata councils on rental of units, and allowed for "lock-off" suites on condo units, which will permit the individual owners to lock a door in their unit and provide a bachelor suite with its own kitchenette, bathroom, and door to the hallway as a "mortgage helper" or home for a relative. While this is a far cry from affordable housing, it may well end up creating a significant new supply of "low end" market housing - bachelors in the downtown rent for about $500 - $700. (And does it ever suck that this is low end!) I'd like to see this innovation in every new residential building from now on in.

[Ms. B. Havin]

... while still maintaining the 2.0 FSR

Remind me again: this development is in Central Saanich, right?

[Caramia]

Hehe yes, the site was actually downzoned from 3.0 FRS to 2.0 in order to accommodate the new towers. It is in keeping with objectives to prevent the harbour from becoming inaccessible to the public view and access. Dockside Green has a similar FRS.

[Baro]

Anything below 3.0 in the city is just a short sighted waste of land and a shameful kick in the tits to poor old mother nature.

[Caramia]

The small footprint of these buildings means that 2.0 FSR translates into three towers capping out at 21 stories for the tallest. The rest of the lot is covered mostly by the roundhouse structures, and pathways connecting Lime Bay to the built area, as well as the E&N corridor and railyard. While in some cases I might agree with you aastra, in this case I think the zoning was appropriate. It has guided the new buildings towards a taller, slimmer appearance. If, down the road, we decide that we want infill, the space has not been already covered by short squat buildings. I'd argue that the historic site, while being extremely low density, has its own value and will in the end attract more people to the area.

[Holden West]

The turntable and roundhouse buildings etc. are registered historic and untouchable, so I wonder what the actual FSR of the buildable land is.

[Baro]

Get some amtrack double-decker passenger cars in there for more FSR !

[Caramia]

Heheh well there are likely to be some cabooses and boxcars for small artisan/retail rental. Does that count?

[G-Man]

I have to diagree completely.

Look at the bottom right of the pic. Please give one good reason for that triangle of green in between the three lower buildings and one taller building. If anything that should be 1 to 2 storey podium full of commercial and townhouses. There is just too much green space here. It reminds me of Le Corbusier. There is a massive park to the left and there is the massive park across Esquimalt Road and there is the walkway. While I can accept the train ROW I cannot accept that huge waste there in an already dead area.

Also Dockside is 3:1 FSR not 2:1 and they are already increasng that because of market conditions.

[Caramia]

Hrmm I think I see the green triangle you are talking about G-Man, I looked on the technical report "Site Planning and Open Space Framework on the Roundhouse Site, it is labelled "residential court."

Under "Residential Character" it says:

RESIDENTIAL CHARACTER The residential character of new development overlays a third expression, reflecting the continued adaptation of the site to updated, and community-serving uses. The new residential component includes landscape at many levels, such as intensive-use roof terrace gardens, semi-private garden courtyard, and a livework component along the E&N Rail Trail.

So I guess that is the semiprivate courtyard area for the residents. If your goal is to densify the core, it has left a large enough uninterrupted space that there is room for infill, and it has allowed three slim towers to be built with support from the neighbourhood association. I find that impressive.

[G-Man]

Good projects should always be supported by the neighbourhood association the fact that this does not usually happen is just a weird Victoria fact.

Why do the residents need a court with so much park space and site open space already there. Seems like this is going to be one big failure due to the lack of commercial density.

[jklymak]

It seems the city has already "decided" that Dockside Green will be the commercial spine of Vic West. Is more commercial needed in South Vic West? There is none there now.

[Mike K.]

Vic West is on the border of downtown and no different than North Park or Fairfield, which have multiple commercial spines a short distance from each other.

Vic Wests population will double by 2020 and as such additional commercial services will be needed (West Side Village has already reached capacity during peak times of the day).

[Caramia]

If you check the information on the website they do an analysis of commercial impact. It is interesting reading because it shows some of the concerns they took into consideration - which were kind of surprising to me.