Jump to content

      



























Photo

Sunshine Terrace: In the shadow of retail giants


  • Please log in to reply
65 replies to this topic

#1 Holden West

Holden West

    Va va voom!

  • Member
  • 9,058 posts

Posted 26 December 2006 - 11:24 AM

In the shadow of retail giants
Residential block turned business hub offers residents headaches, convenience


SHANNON MONEO

Special to The Globe and Mail POSTED ON 26/12/06

LANGFORD -- In the Victoria suburb of Langford, 14 orphan houses on Sunshine Terrace sit in the thick of holiday shoppers rushing from Golf Town to Future Shop.

Eight years ago, the street was Langford's first foray into affordable housing. The 1,600-square-foot homes built on 4,000-square-foot lots sold for about $160,000. Surrounded by trees and rocky hills, Sunshine Terrace was to be the first street in a residential neighbourhood.

Today, the modest, two-storey houses are hemmed in by big-box stores, retail outlets and eateries, something that does not make Carol Brooks happy.

"It's this little street in the midst of all this nightmare," she said. "You're forever dodging traffic."

In March, 2005, Ms. Brooks moved in with her husband Larry, who died a few months later.

And despite a reasonable $1,100 monthly rent for a detached home, the 60-year-old grandmother will be moving within a few months.

Even though a few front yards sport holiday decorations, the street feels isolated. Of the 14 houses, five are rented, four are occupied by the owners and the remaining five are vacant and for sale -- unusual in the Victoria area's hot housing market.

Retired barber Bill Leslie was one of the first to buy a Sunshine Terrace home eight years ago.

"We bought thinking it would be residential," Mr. Leslie said. "Now we're in the middle of development."

But the 68-year-old isn't keen to move.

Mr. Leslie is a gardener and, among the remaining rocky outcrops, he has created a prize-winning backyard.

He said he is even saving gas.

"You don't have to get into a car to go shopping."

Sunshine Terrace began as a residential enclave in 1998. One year later, massive road upgrades were started to handle south Vancouver Island's growing population. A Trans-Canada Highway interchange was built near the street.

Suddenly, businesses were eager to set up nearby to capture commuters, and surrounding land was rezoned to commercial.

By 2001, Sunshine Terrace homeowners wanted their street to be rezoned to commercial, which would enable them to sell their homes for more than they paid.

But the rezoning raised property taxes and insurance costs. Some homeowners couldn't secure mortgages, Langford Mayor Stewart Young said.

The final blow was when the developer of Millstream Village couldn't strike a deal with the Sunshine Terrace homeowners to purchase all of the properties.

In 2004, the Sunshine Terrace houses reverted to residential status.

Mr. Young didn't anticipate Sunshine Terrace would become such an anomaly.

"It's out of the ordinary," he said. "It's this unique piece of property."

Mr. Young, 46, who has been mayor since 1992, has been both vilified and glorified for bringing millions of dollars of commercial development to Langford, an area once derisively labelled "Dogpatch."

Today, 22,000 people live in the community west of Victoria.

Known for moving quickly and decisively, the former entrepreneur has spent a disproportionate amount of time dealing with Sunshine Terrace. "I've spent so much time politically on these little houses," Mr. Young said.

In 2001, Mr. Young figured a commercially zoned Sunshine Terrace house could have fetched up to $400,000.

Sylvia Marcangeli, 32, moved across the street at the end of August.

When she tells her friends where she lives, they exclaim, "You live on that street?"

But the location has its upsides, she said.

"You can't find anything like this for half the rent," said Ms. Marcangeli, referring to the size and quality of the house. She and her partner pay about $1,400 a month.

Another bonus is being able to walk a few hundred metres to the upscale Market on Millstream to buy food.

"When you have the stores all around, it definitely makes you feel like shopping," said Ms. Marcangeli, who is on maternity leave from her job at a collection agency.

But she's not sure she will stick around once her first child is born in February.

Her cat Nemo was recently killed on the very busy Millstream Road, just steps away.

Non-residents encountered in the parking lot weren't sold on Sunshine Terrace.

"Wouldn't that be awful to live there," said Saanich resident Marilyn Trupp. She was going to the new Serious Coffee cafe, on the other side of Ms. Marcangeli's back yard. "There's no place for kids to play."

Even teenager Madison Allen wouldn't want to live within walking distance of Le Chateau.

"People park in your driveway. There's no privacy," the 13 year old said.

Mr. Young, meanwhile, still has hopes for Sunshine Terrace.

He envisions lawyers, dentists and accountants opening offices to service the shoppers buying pet supplies and furniture in the nearby stores.

"Maybe there's a new zone we should be looking at," he said. "We could change it into live/work.

"There's probably a way to do housing that's unique. Here's this funky little street in the middle of development with home-based businesses."


"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#2 VicHockeyFan

VicHockeyFan
  • Suspended User
  • 52,121 posts

Posted 26 December 2006 - 12:16 PM

Oh, well.

I'm sure residents will love living amongst Walmart and the others in Saanich's downtown though.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#3 aastra

aastra
  • Member
  • 20,763 posts

Posted 26 December 2006 - 03:16 PM

"There's no place for kids to play."


Can't the kids play on their street? It's a dead end, isn't it?

#4 aastra

aastra
  • Member
  • 20,763 posts

Posted 26 December 2006 - 03:19 PM

The lesson of this story is, it's a bad idea to convert huge chunks of a community into a big box desert. Welcome the big boxes all you like, but obligate them to build attractive, pedestrian-friendly environments.

"Wouldn't that be awful to live there," said Saanich resident Marilyn Trupp.


There's no reason it must be awful. Mrs. Trupp chooses to make the haul out to Langford precisely because the shops, restaurants and services there are appealing to her. So why not make the built form of these businesses appealing to the people who live nearby as well? STOP CATERING TO THE CAR.

#5 Ms. B. Havin

Ms. B. Havin
  • Member
  • 5,052 posts

Posted 26 December 2006 - 03:25 PM

From the photo, the street looks almost like it runs up to the parking lot, which suggests that people probably use it for turning around, looking for exits back to the main road, etc. Probably not a happy playground...!

That whole area is soooo weird. The stores are built around this huge quadrangle of parking acreage, fronting the parking lot. The backsides? Nothing to look at. But when you're up there and the parking lot is quiet, it puts the real meaning of agora into the agoraphobia.... Empty empty empty, vast open spaces...
When you buy a game, you buy the rules. Play happens in the space between the rules.

#6 NMP

NMP
  • Member
  • 134 posts

Posted 26 December 2006 - 11:09 PM

STOP CATERING TO THE CAR.


Could you explain what it means? Do not provide ample parking space, or do it in a different way, or something else?

#7 Holden West

Holden West

    Va va voom!

  • Member
  • 9,058 posts

Posted 27 December 2006 - 12:49 AM

It has been definitively proven that development that caters primarily to the pedestrian, rather than the automobile is superior in practically every conceivable way.

For example, designs that place stores far apart, with [url=http://www.photosfromonhigh.info/walmart.htm:3c2bd]acres of parking between the building and the sidewalk[/url:3c2bd] make walking inconvenient, if not impossible.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#8 NMP

NMP
  • Member
  • 134 posts

Posted 27 December 2006 - 05:56 AM

Yes, I understand. I guess what I am asking is what kind of practical solution is there as far as shopping at Costco-type of stores is concerned.

#9 G-Man

G-Man

    Senior Case Officer

  • Moderator
  • 13,806 posts

Posted 27 December 2006 - 07:24 AM

Vancouver and other cities have discovered that these type of stores do work in an urban setting rather than out in the burbs. Not only does this development in no way cater to the pedestrian but it also forces those that go there to drive quite a distance.

Visit my blog at: https://www.sidewalkingvictoria.com 

 

It has a whole new look!

 


#10 NMP

NMP
  • Member
  • 134 posts

Posted 27 December 2006 - 07:43 AM

Let me rephrase my question... It's not a drop-by-for-the-loaf-of-bread store, people generally go there to buy in quantities impossible to drag away by any other than a car means. So, rural or urban setting, how do you see a "not cater to a car" practical solution to a parking matter for a Costco-type store? By practical I obviously mean other than "let's ban Costco outright" :)

#11 G-Man

G-Man

    Senior Case Officer

  • Moderator
  • 13,806 posts

Posted 27 December 2006 - 08:47 AM

All the grocery stores have home delivery. Even my pharmacy has home delivery. I lived without a car for eight years and always managed to get stuff I wanted delivered to my house. Of course I don't have a Costco membership, then again I don't need 54 chicken breasts in a deep freeze nor do I want to buy crappy electronics.

Home depot has a location in downtown New York that I saw and they deliver.

Costco type stores only make themselves car-centric because the customers are not demanding better.

Visit my blog at: https://www.sidewalkingvictoria.com 

 

It has a whole new look!

 


#12 NMP

NMP
  • Member
  • 134 posts

Posted 27 December 2006 - 09:13 AM

If I understand right, your answer contains two solutions. One is, go to Costco, pick your stuff and put it away, pay and go home wait for delivery. Another is, be like me and don't shop at Costco. Neither sounds realistic to me.

#13 ressen

ressen
  • Member
  • 539 posts

Posted 27 December 2006 - 09:28 AM

There is nothing wrong in using 'cars' as a means of transportation. It is just that the modern car and the infrastructure is out dated and has not changed much in a hundred years. Imagine if electronics had changed as little as the car and the way we use it.

#14 Holden West

Holden West

    Va va voom!

  • Member
  • 9,058 posts

Posted 27 December 2006 - 09:40 AM

NMP, the solution is not to ban the big box stores (although I'm not terribly fond of them) but to build them right up to the sidewalk ([url=http://www.optimumwindow.com/Resize%20of%20Home%20Depot%20full%20front.jpg:8b90e]like this[/url:8b90e]) and put the parking underground or in back. Then you have a sidewalk that's inviting to walk down, not oppressive. In fact, a passerby might be tempted to pop in and pick up an item or two--and that's good for business (and unlikely to happen in [url=http://www.kate-jody.com/Aerial%20Photos%20June%2021st%202005%20192.jpg:8b90e]a place like this[/url:8b90e]!)
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#15 NMP

NMP
  • Member
  • 134 posts

Posted 27 December 2006 - 09:42 AM

^^This very well could be true, depending on definitions and framework of discussion. But those are somewhat too broad strokes. Original question about meaning of "do not cater to cars" as pertains to shopping at big boxes still stands.

I am not arguing one side or another, I am simply trying to understand what practical solution is there. I believe this is a legitimate question. When you say "this is bad" and do not add constructive positive message describing what constitutes "good", negative part of the message is going to be shrugged off. If your suggested solution is unrealistic, negative part of the message is going to be dismissed as lunacy.

#16 G-Man

G-Man

    Senior Case Officer

  • Moderator
  • 13,806 posts

Posted 27 December 2006 - 09:43 AM

NMP - How about Costco open a location closer to town so that people have the option of taking the bus or walking and having it delivered. What percentage of CRD residents can't even shop there because of its location. Superstore is opening a location in the core. I will be able to walk there in fifteen minutes and it is on the new BRT route so people will be able to bus there as well. Seems smart...

I think the whole big box concept in the boonies will be indicative of our wasteful society in the future.

our grandchildren - So you purposefully built your shopping centres on the extreme edges of the city so that the majority of people would have to go as far as possible? Weird!

Visit my blog at: https://www.sidewalkingvictoria.com 

 

It has a whole new look!

 


#17 NMP

NMP
  • Member
  • 134 posts

Posted 27 December 2006 - 09:46 AM

2Holden West: Okay, that's the answer that fits into "create a parking in a different way, more pedestrian etc friendly and still allowing for the car to be used". Far cry from simple "do not cater to the car", IMO. Thank you

#18 G-Man

G-Man

    Senior Case Officer

  • Moderator
  • 13,806 posts

Posted 27 December 2006 - 09:47 AM

^ perhaps cater to the car after the pedestrian is better. I am not against underground parking.

Visit my blog at: https://www.sidewalkingvictoria.com 

 

It has a whole new look!

 


#19 NMP

NMP
  • Member
  • 134 posts

Posted 27 December 2006 - 09:49 AM

G-Man: I don't believe Costco shopping is majorly car-based because of location. Put it smack in the middle of very dense area, overwhelming majority of shoppers still will be there with their cars. IMO.

#20 G-Man

G-Man

    Senior Case Officer

  • Moderator
  • 13,806 posts

Posted 27 December 2006 - 09:53 AM

If you did a percaptia measurement of those that drive to Wal-mart in the West Comms and those that drive to the Wal-mart in Saanich I would guarantee that there are more people biking walking and riding the bus there than the one in Langford. I am sure it would still be the minority but it would be dramatically higher. Once the new Superstore is built it will be the same but I bet an even lower percentage of car users.

Also when these places are located closer to the majority of residents those that do drive, don't have to drive as far therefore polluting less.

Visit my blog at: https://www.sidewalkingvictoria.com 

 

It has a whole new look!

 


You're not quite at the end of this discussion topic!

Use the page links at the lower-left to go to the next page to read additional posts.
 



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users