102 replies to this topic

[Baro]

It should, but we have to do endless visions studies and community input meetings to finally decide on a mission statement and community plan full of such wishy-washy language that it ends up defining nothing and is thrown out a couple years later only for the process to repeat.

[UrbanRail]

I sent my submission to the plan at city hall in person on Tuesday. It was 30 pages long on my proposed streetcar network, and a new E&N Terminal. Lindsay Chase in charge of the Downtown Plan sent me this email today.


Hi Aaron,

Just a quick note to thank you for your submission about transportation alternatives that might be considered for the Downtown Plan Update. You've obviously done a lot of research and it is very generous of you to share it with us. All of the submissions received will be considered in the preparation of a recommended option to Council.

Thank you for participating in this project.

Regards,

Lindsay Chase, MCIP
Senior Planner, Community Planning Division

[Baro]

Awesome! I wonder how seriously anyone at city hall is thinking about trams.

[UrbanRail]

Awesome! I wonder how seriously anyone at city hall is thinking about trams.

Well based on what I saw, there was no mention of trams, just transit circular routes. There was one picture of the Portland Streetcar. But transit circular routes could be interpreted as either bus or tram (streetcar). According to one of the planners at the open house, nothing in the plan is written in stone. Here is what I think phase one of a tram system could look like. Refer to the following map. I did change a few things after I submitted my proposal to city hall.

The first map is the 1992-93 Streetcar Study and the second map is my suggestion. You will notice I did a few changes.

[Rob Randall]

A reminder that the online voting ends tomorrow. Go here to register your vote for one of the four options:

http://victoria.ca/c..._downtown.shtml

The Board of the DRA likes option #3 best but we feel it underestimates the huge potential for Rock Bay as a vibrant mixed-use neighbourhood.

[amor de cosmos]

The Board of the DRA likes option #3 best but we feel it underestimates the huge potential for Rock Bay as a vibrant mixed-use neighbourhood.

How about focusing development along Douglas and in Harris Green as in option 3, but spruce up the entire waterfront from Capital Iron all the way to the Selkirk development? Why stop at Rock Bay? That would be a good time to build that waterfront walkway that was in the paper a few weeks ago also. It would be a lot easier to find then if it were built on purpose rather than 'improvised' as the guy in the article proposed. Since it already goes through the Selkirk development, the east side of the harbour could connect up with the Galloping Goose. Then the eastern shore would mirror the western shore (Dockside Green, Tyee, The Railyards, etc etc) Focus development in those two areas (waterfront & Douglas+HG), and over time they would naturally merge together. There could be prime waterfront space for the Victoria "opera house" that was proposed for Y lot or Ship's Point many years ago, for example.

[Holden West]

That's a good point. Someone on here posted a good aerial photo of Rock Bay showing the beautiful Point Ellice House surrounded by bleak, desolate wasteland. Industrial is good but that area is a hellhole.

[amor de cosmos]

hellhole except for the culturally significant heritage gravel pits. & I think it was me who posted the pic of Rock Bay in the "where to put 16,000 people" thread.

[Mike K.]

The City needs to crack down on the mess the industrial facilities create in that part of town, but otherwise I support them being there and want to preserve any industrial space that we have in town.

I like how the gravel pit sprays the wheels and underbelly of trucks exiting their facility in order to reduce dust and dirt on the road but it's not enough. In the summer the dust can get so heavy that you think you're driving through a dust storm between the Bay Street bridge and Government St.

[Caramia]

Preserving diversity in our downtown means more than keeping Chinatown pretty and allowing young people to hang out in front of McDonalds. It also means preserving space for blue collar workers and industry. This group sometimes doesn't get a voice, since it is more likely the yuppy crowd who become politicians, developers, architects and who are vocal about urban change.

While I am an avid proponent of adding to the residential stock of downtown I strongly believe that it should not be at the expense of those industrial uses that are tied to water access. The waterfront industry at Rock Bay is the machinery that runs our city, and IMO it would be a huge mistake to gut the working harbour in favour of condos and parks. What people who advocate removing that industry are not looking at is what function it actually plays in keeping our city going. Without a concrete understanding of how essential it is, we risk shooting ourselves in the foot by removing it. Not everything needs to be pretty, baby proof, and sanitized, especially not those things that actually enable all the condo construction we get so excited about.

One of the best things about Option three is that it does allow for mixed use in Rock Bay while preserving what needs to be preserved - those industries that require access to a deep harbour. For those who eye Rock Bay jealously as the potential location for more residential growth, this allows them to push out some of the industry without irrevocably harming the mechanics of the city.

[G-Man]

^ agree completely. Housing and industry can co-exist but if there are going to be problems next to a current use then industry should win. I do fear though that as land prices continue to rise and downtown exppands there will be pressure on these places.

[amor de cosmos]

Here's the ~72-acre area I mean:



edit: fyi that barge filled with gravel comes from the 'Royal Bay' gravel pit in Colwood

[G-Man]

^ I think that area should stay industrial or hav a mix with work/live or artist studios.

[UrbanRail]

^ I think that area should stay industrial or hav a mix with work/live or artist studios.

You mean kind of like Dockside Green, but more industrial like?

[Caramia]

The barge carries 60 tons of material which is then used predominantly in the core ... imagine that coming down the highway in contractors 1/2 ton trucks every day.

[amor de cosmos]

how about this ~110-acre area then:



The big 5-way roundabout at Gorge/Hillside/Douglas could be restored, and Hillside between it and the waterfront could be turned into a fancy wide boulevard, sort of a continuation of what it is to the east. That Victoria 'opera house' could go somewhere near there, if not on the waterfront. A megalomaniacal European-style column could go in the middle, sort of like the Victoria Memorial in front of Buckingham Palace, maybe our own version of a Victoria memorial:


With enough big imposing buildings in the vicinity that crossroads would be quite a sight!!

I think I recognise the Scotiabank building straight ahead, & the fountain from Market Square is out of the frame to the left:


1963 aerial, looking north:

[UrbanRail]

how about this ~110-acre area then:



The big 5-way roundabout at Gorge/Hillside/Douglas could be restored, and Hillside between it and the waterfront could be turned into a fancy wide boulevard, sort of a continuation of what it is to the east. That Victoria 'opera house' could go somewhere near there, if not on the waterfront. A megalomaniacal European-style column could go in the middle, sort of like the Victoria Memorial in front of Buckingham Palace, maybe our own version of a Victoria memorial:


With enough big imposing buildings in the vicinity that crossroads would be quite a sight!!

I think I recognise the Scotiabank building straight ahead, & the fountain from Market Square is out of the frame to the left:


1963 aerial, looking north:

I didnt realize that Mayfair mall was built in the early 60s. I wonder what the curved roof building just before the mall is.

[aastra]

I believe that curved building was a roller rink.



Check out Kings Road. What a great little street it must have been:

[amor de cosmos]

Calgary unveils downtown strategy

Mario Toneguzzi, Calgary Herald
Published: Tuesday, December 11, 2007

Calgary is embarking on a downtown retail district strategy to enhance the sector as the city's core expands in the future with the addition of more people living and working in the area.

<snip>

Today, Calgary invited a representative of the Boston Redevelopment Authority to speak here about the current initiative taking place in the New England city.

Andrew Grace, senior planner/urban designer for the BRA, said Boston is creating a brand and identity strategy for Downtown Crossing, Boston's historic retail district.

"The economic improvement initiative has been in place since October of 2004. At that time, we knew there were a number of development projects that were going to be occurring but we wanted them to coalesce and bring them together and shape a vision around them," Grace told the Herald.

He said the vision for Downtown Crossing in Boston is that it is a "meeting place - a place where Boston comes together."

"It's not afraid to be urban. It's proudly urban but it's where all of Boston comes together," said Grace, adding his message to Calgary is to capture all the energy in the different development projects and direct it so "it isn't a bunch of disparate elements, but it actually comes together."

http://www.canada.co...53-45d21032a687

Oh no! Boston is going to become a big city! What are people going to do to protect all those heritage buildings?! Victoria can do the same sort of thing, say south of Yates & west of Douglas.

Here;s the Calgary plan, if anyone cares. I haven't read through it all but it looks interesting, if this article is anything to go by:
http://www.calgary.c...entre City .htm
http://www.calgary.c...ty_plan_one.pdf

edit: related stuff

Business zones team up to improve growth

Mario Toneguzzi, Calgary Herald
Published: Tuesday, December 11, 2007

Calgary's nine business revitalization zones have signed a charter to work together in developing and growing the business districts throughout the city.

Barbara Stein, executive director of Uptown 17 and the inaugural president of CBIZ (Calgary Business Revitalization Zones), said that although all nine current BRZ's will retain their own individuality, "we have arrived at a commonality and that is a shared vision for the future of Calgary."

The new initiative was officially launched Tuesday morning at a news conference at Calgary Economic Development.

"Although we are spread out all over the city, we realize that we are a very important partner for the City of Calgary and very crucial to the future of the vibrancy of this city," said Stein, adding CBIZ will now present all BRZ's as an organized entity to the city. The first BRZ in Calgary was established in 1984 along 17th Avenue S.W.

<snip>

http://www.canada.co...73-39763985d2b1

[G-Man]

Downtown options don't make it livable
Times Colonist
Published: Monday, December 31, 2007

I am glad to see Francis Rattenbury's grave in England now properly marked, but sad that the four options of the City of Victoria's downtown plan would continue to overshadow his works by the Inner Harbour with concrete towers, replacing trees with a hard-edged skyline.

Developers are destroying what attracts residents.

From the Regional Growth Strategy, council took two words -- "growth" and "density." Council missed "walkable" and "transit oriented," core strategies for a livable city.

Transit receives passing mention. Yet transportation directs city development. Streetcar routes were laid out over Victoria. Since 1945, cars have caused sprawl and promised gridlock.

Transit can build density without congestion.

"Luxury" apartment residents are drivers. They avoid buses. Other cities find 25 per cent or more of drivers use streetcar or light rail service when provided.

Salt Lake City built one line for its Olympics. Opponents wanted roads. Now four more lines are being built to meet demand.

Portland, Ore., without higher government financing, built a circulating streetcar line integral to rejuvenating downtown with fabulous results.

With leaders of vision, what works elsewhere will work here.

Vancouver's Arbutus Walk, at six storeys, remedies isolation plaguing apartment living. The scale would suit Victoria. Ground floor townhouses have porches and yards replacing the sterile streetscape found on Humboldt Street near Douglas Street.

Why plan a developer's dream but a resident's nightmare. Set new goals.

Bob Trotter,

Saanich.

I don't even know where to start with this letter.

First if anything Francis Rattenbury was building monuments far beyond what Victoria was in 1900 let alone in 2008. To say that they relate to trees while modern buildings don't is beyond ridiculous.

Density in general will mean walkable because there are more things in a smaller distance. Something that a 3:1 density cannot do.

As a DOWNTOWN resident I take offense that someone in Saanich thinks he knows what a resident's nightmare is. My nightmare is Gordon Head or Broadmead. A dense urban fabric is paradise.