123 replies to this topic

[Ms. B. Havin]

This gets my vote for boneheaded decision of the year.

[aastra]

It really gets me because the positive transformation of south downtown wasn't the result of some city plan for the area. It's been a spontaneous thing, hence its success. So here comes the big dumb city to throw a wrench into the works.

[aastra]

This is why Downtown Plan Option #3 scares me so much:



We all know why there have been calls for new residential development downtown: because downtown needs people. But can someone explain to me why the city is so concerned with inserting new open spaces downtown? I've never heard anyone other than a city politician/official say downtown needs more open space.

Downtown is downtown. People who love downtown love it because it's downtown. If they wanted Saanich, they'd be in Saanich. We've got to stop trying to tailor our downtown to people who don't like downtown.

[aastra]

The expansion is also nudging out Cycle B.C., which rents motorcycles, bicycles and scooters, on city-owned land at 747 Douglas St. that's now required for conference centre operations.

Darn, I was hoping for a public square or something.

[Caramia]

/sigh

Well maybe this is one thing that public outcry can change? After all, we'd be asking the City to NOT spend money, thats good right? It might be an issue that could unite various sectors of the public too - senior citizens, campaigning for the same thing as us young folk? Is it possible?

[gumgum]

Mr. Lowe. If you are reading this. Abandon this plan immediately!

If you really think we need more parking downtown, why don't you just do what used to be done here, create another surface parking lot. Because you're going to attract just as many people to a parking lot as you would building another urban plaza.

This is the stupidest idea yet! Stupider than shutting down the Coho.
If you insist on shutting the bowling, there are hundreds of better more useful ways of using this incredibly precious land. We need density! Vibrancy!
Give your head a shake start fresh.

[Mike K.]

Oh, brother.

Boneheaded idea of the year is right.

[amor de cosmos]

This is why Downtown Plan Option #3 scares me so much:



We all know why there have been calls for new residential development downtown: because downtown needs people. But can someone explain to me why the city is so concerned with inserting new open spaces downtown? I've never heard anyone other than a city politician/official say downtown needs more open space.

Two of those open spaces already exist, and the area around the Bay St armoury needs some sort of green space.

[G-Man]

I agree Amor there does need to be something in the Bay Street area but only after we have some significant residential going in.

The one in Harris Green is just another disaster waiting to happen. Why not put some money into making Harris Green (the park) an enticing place to go for people other than the homeless instead.

Still this truly is one of the worst ideas I have evar seen. If they want something that will draw people how about a stand alone art gallery connected to the Crystal Gardens. They could easily get federal infrastructure money and it would have a nice cohesion with the planned Conference Centre expansion. You could even let Westbank in on the funding and let them do something different on the Crystal Court side.

Or as Gum gum said build your underground parking in and put the Lawn bowling back after you are done. I am surprised this does not seem to be getting much traction in the NIMBY circles but perhaps they also like useless public space.

[D.L.]

Perhaps this new urban square and underground parkade will be usefull to the Crystal Gardens when it is turned into more conference space.

[G-Man]

^ No doubt. But it is the after effect of the parking that most of us are upset about. Build ten levels of U/G parking just don't cap it with another useless public space.

[amor de cosmos]

The one in Harris Green is just another disaster waiting to happen. Why not put some money into making Harris Green (the park) an enticing place to go for people other than the homeless instead.

They could leave Harris Green as is & build up all along that part of Pandora on the "quiet" side of it. That would look cool.

I am surprised this does not seem to be getting much traction in the NIMBY circles but perhaps they also like useless public space.

As long as the city doesn't do anything too "big capital city" I don't think they'd care.

In fairness to the city, if most of the submissions they got favoured option 3 then they're just doing to the lawn bowling place what option 3 said. If you look at the picture/rendering there's a big open area behind Crystal Gardens, and most of the big buildings are to the north. If people liked option 3 (like me) why complain. They're just doing what it said.

[Mike K.]

The conference centre already has a useless space that they utilize for overflow conferences. Other than that it sits empty even during the peak summer season.

[renthefinn]

If it's gonna stay as open space leave it as it is, and bury the parking underneath, at least as a turf field it gets some use and is well maintained. Not sure if anyone else said that yet, but any other open space is useless.

[Holden West]

The only way it can be successful is if it is a gathering point (like the Vancouver or Victoria libraries) or a convenient cut-through. This site has neither going for it. At least Centennial Square is a quick path from Chinatown to Douglas St.

[Galvanized]

Wow aastra, 9 posts in one hour. I believe that's a new Vibrant Victoria record!


I'm going to be the devils advocate here as the major complaint we heard about with the Crystalview plan was parking. Would this plan not solve that problem?

I like the look of open green spaces in urban areas and don't agree with building on this site. Throw the parking underground but at least keep it green and not cement.

[G-Man]

^ I agree with everything except the your idea that green is good. I think an extension of the park would also be a disaster. Keep it a lwan bowling club or build something. It has to have an independent use that is not public open space. The park is right there for the public already.

[aastra]

It's the first mistake of urban planning, believing that open spaces justify themselves. Why not build an entire city of open spaces? Because cities aren't about voids, that's why. Cities are about people and activities. Inserting yet another useless open space is akin to taking a big eraser and rubbing out yet another little piece of the city's soul.

[amor de cosmos]

It's the first mistake of urban planning, believing that open spaces justify themselves. Why not build an entire city of open spaces? Because cities aren't about voids, that's why. Cities are about people and activities. Inserting yet another useless open space is akin to taking a big eraser and rubbing out yet another little piece of the city's soul.

Directly across Belleville (where the Crystal Court motel is now) there are plans to put in a 20-something story condo tower. Check out the separate thread

[Caramia]

If it is going to be open space make it a community garden for Humbolt Valley residents, at least then there is a reason for people to go there.