147 replies to this topic

[Ms. B. Havin]

Oh, I see -- that's what you're getting at!

Yes, that's right, in that sense 608 is one of the precedents. ...Although it's not a well-liked one by some on council, I don't think...

What Kempling is also referring to are the taller buildings already there, plus the fact that some of them are zoned for much higher even though they didn't build as high as they're zoned for. I'm not 100% certain on this, and maybe someone else can confirm/ refute/ correct, but I believe the International House building (SW corner of Broughton & Douglas) actually could be higher than it is (has a higher zoning)?? And the argument is that if there are parcels in the immediate vicinity that exceed this Old Town zoning, which Kirk Hall manages to fall into even though not much surrounding it is "old town-ish," then why should this parcel conform to that zone?

I think that's part of the argument, but maybe someone else can jump in with more info?

[concorde]

Is Westbank still involved in this project? I ask because I heard thru gossip that they still are, but I usually need to hear it from a few sources before I consider it fact.

[Kapten Kapsell]

I would imagine they have some involvement as they still have a sales office in one of the DiCastri storefronts on Douglas (not that this is solid proof...)

[Rob Randall]

Westbank is no longer involved with this project although they might get back together if the zoning is approved. You will recall that the Kirk Hall project has no real developer right now--only the owner of the property, the church. They need an experienced developer who can provide expertise and financing.

[Rob Randall]

...I believe the International House building (SW corner of Broughton & Douglas) actually could be higher than it is (has a higher zoning)??

I can find out but I think it's zoned 3:1 fsr but is built to a little less than that.

[Rob Randall]

This is presented before Committee of the Whole at 9 am at City Hall this Thursday.

[Rob Randall]

Voted down at Cotw. Only Councillor Coleman voted to send it to public hearing.

Councillor Madoff accused the proponents of being inflexible in presenting Council a take-it-or-leave-it proposal to which St. Andrew's rep Jim Kempling jumped up and angrily claimed that was false.

Kempling stormed out, along with a few dozen St. Andrew's supporters.

[G-Man]

Wow, good idea to push away potential jobs on a decent proposal in our economic climate. Nice to see this council has things down pat.

[aastra]

Good stuff. Add them to the list of evil developers that we should send packing to Vancouver:

- Art Gallery of Greater Victoria
- Rogers' Chocolates
- Sisters of St. Angela
- St. Andrew's Presbyterian Church

Stop trying to ruin Victoria, the lot of you!

[Rob Randall]

The main complaint was that this proposal was putting too much height and density into Old Town. The Planning Dept. recommended turning it down and Council agreed.

There was talk that perhaps it should be tabled to allow the proponent a chance to make the building a better fit but others thought that that was exactly the type of back and forth that makes projects die a slow death over two or more years and that they should stick with the bylaws and guidelines by rejecting it.

[G-Man]

Height and density in old town. Now you are going to get Aastra started...

Did they notice that there are three tall buildings within 25 m of this building? Falls, Strathcona, and the International Building?

[Birk]

Yah but this is old town on the west side of Douglas. Not a good place to build something so high it almost touches God himself. It was waaaaay too high. It seemed to me that staff and council were rather sincere and understanding, yet had to decline the redevelopment as it was so out of line. Maybe the congregation got some bad advice.

[G-Man]

The International Building is on the West side of Douglas as is the Church spire as is the Empress seems the height would have had lots of company.

[Rob Randall]

The taller neighbours were mentioned but were deemed irrelevant because of one or more of the following: (a) they were east of Douglas (not in Old Town), (b)608 Broughton--a one-off zoning anomaly from the 80s, © were taller (eg: Magnolia) but only over the limit by a few metres.

[G-Man]

What about the Empress, actually nevermind it would have been a zoning anomoly, never would have been allowed today.

[Rob Randall]

Geoff Young, I think, pointed out that if they approved this they'd pretty much have to give the neighbouring Ballantyne lot a similar zoning, especially as they might possibly request bonus density in return for retaining the "heritage" modernist facade on Douglas.

[G-Man]

^ As they should.

[Bernard]

As much as I dislike the decision, I can see the sense in it. So what now for the Scots that they are not allowed to build this building?

[FunkyMunky]

Geoff Young, I think, pointed out that if they approved this they'd pretty much have to give the neighbouring Ballantyne lot a similar zoning, especially as they might possibly request bonus density in return for retaining the "heritage" modernist facade on Douglas.

Quotation marks, Rob? Is that because you're quoting someone or are you implying the the use of the word heritage is inappropriately used in reference to Di Castri's 1954 design?