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1994/2022 Commonwealth Games


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#41 aastra

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 10:39 AM

So what do we make of this? Do we have a thread for this?
http://www.timescolo...ames-1.20271261

 

 

“Victoria is quite capable of hosting another Commonwealth Games, and it’s a great economic and sport development opportunity for the region,” he said.

“The question is whether the feds and province would be prepared to cover 75 per cent of a potential $1-billion budget. It might be time to bring more sanity to the Games costs issues through an alternate concept, with lower cost.”
- See more at: http://www.timescolo...h.EthKjZPA.dpuf

 

I'm not really keen about it. You're asking for a letdown when you try to throw the same party twice. And I'm a bit confused by the $1 billion price tag. unless they're planning to do some significant & permanent expansion/renovation of UVic's stadium as part of the deal.

 

Seriously, Commonwealth Place would suffice as a swimming facility, the arena and UVic's gymnasium would suffice for arena/court events (and be far superior to what was available in 1994). What other new facilities could they require? A bunch of new housing at UVic, maybe?


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#42 shoeflack

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 10:56 AM

These Games have grown since 1994. Twice the participants (2,500 in 1994 versus 5,000 in 2014). 18 sports instead of 10. The required deliverables for these Games far, far exceed what was needed in 1994.

 

I know a few people on the bid committee. Even they know it's a long shot. Toronto is far better positioned in terms of venues with the capacity to host these Games. Not to mention some of the international bids. The only saving grace for Victoria is that Toronto will be fatigued from other multi-sport Games...so their ability to get funding will be challenged (2015 Pan American Games, 2017 North American Indigenous Games, 2017 Invictus Games). But they have all of the required infrastructure, so their costs will also be lower than Victoria.

 

The bid committee just jumped on an opportunity, as they were specifically solicited by the Commonwealth Games Federation for one when Durban withdrew (along with a number of other cities).

 

I will say, if you want the opportunity for a targeted low-income/affordable housing build...an athletes village that can host 5,000 would do it.


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#43 aastra

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 11:28 AM

 

...in terms of venues with the capacity to host these Games.

 

What does capacity mean in this context? Would multiple aquatic centres and multiple arenas be required because of the sheer number of events and the sheer number of participants for those events in the preliminary rounds? Victoria has redundant field facilities in the west comms, at interurban, and a decent arena at Bear Mountain that it didn't have back in 1994. Not to mention, Victoria may have two Commonwealth Games-grade aquatic centres by the time 2022 rolls around (which would be pretty crazy for almost any community let alone a community Victoria's size).

 

Looking at Coomera 2018 facilities, the only missing piece that really jumps out is the rugby stadium, but Royal Athletic Park could surely do the job as evidenced by the FIFA U-20 games:
http://www.statedeve...monwealth-games

https://en.wikipedia...monwealth_Games



#44 spanky123

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 11:31 AM

These Games have grown since 1994. Twice the participants (2,500 in 1994 versus 5,000 in 2014). 18 sports instead of 10. The required deliverables for these Games far, far exceed what was needed in 1994.

 

I know a few people on the bid committee. Even they know it's a long shot. Toronto is far better positioned in terms of venues with the capacity to host these Games. Not to mention some of the international bids. The only saving grace for Victoria is that Toronto will be fatigued from other multi-sport Games...so their ability to get funding will be challenged (2015 Pan American Games, 2017 North American Indigenous Games, 2017 Invictus Games). But they have all of the required infrastructure, so their costs will also be lower than Victoria.

 

The bid committee just jumped on an opportunity, as they were specifically solicited by the Commonwealth Games Federation for one when Durban withdrew (along with a number of other cities).

 

I will say, if you want the opportunity for a targeted low-income/affordable housing build...an athletes village that can host 5,000 would do it.

 

Rest assured that if Victoria wins the bid then it will be determined that our facilities are all in a major need of upgrade and the costs will balloon far beyond the the estimated $1B for security. We didn't build any affordable housing the last time around and it won't happen next time either. The hotel and airbnb community will make sure of that. It is not a surprise that cities are pulling out. In recent years the costs are never recovered and the taxpayer is left with a decade long hangover. Time to pass.



#45 shoeflack

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 11:35 AM

Rest assured that if Victoria wins the bid then it will be determined that our facilities are all in a major need of upgrade and the costs will balloon far beyond the the estimated $1B for security. We didn't build any affordable housing the last time around and it won't happen next time either. The hotel and airbnb community will make sure of that. It is not a surprise that cities are pulling out. In recent years the costs are never recovered and the taxpayer is left with a decade long hangover. Time to pass.

 

I would categorize university housing under that umbrella. The costs to live in university residence are subsidized, therefore "affordable".


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#46 aastra

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 11:36 AM

Methinks the only place where any significant housing would be built would be (again) at UVic.



#47 shoeflack

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 11:38 AM

Methinks the only place where any significant housing would be built would be (again) at UVic.

 

Camosun needs a rez. And one was originally planned out of the 1994 legacy fund, but was never built.


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#48 shoeflack

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 11:42 AM

What does capacity mean in this context? Would multiple aquatic centres and multiple arenas be required because of the sheer number of events and the sheer number of participants for those events in the preliminary rounds? Victoria has redundant field facilities in the west comms, at interurban, and a decent arena at Bear Mountain that it didn't have back in 1994. Not to mention, Victoria may have two Commonwealth Games-grade aquatic centres by the time 2022 rolls around (which would be pretty crazy for almost any community let alone a community Victoria's size).

 

Looking at Coomera 2018 facilities, the only missing piece that really jumps out is the rugby stadium, but Royal Athletic Park could surely do the job as evidenced by the FIFA U-20 games:
http://www.statedeve...monwealth-games

https://en.wikipedia...monwealth_Games

 

Westhills would host Rugby for sure. With temporary seating brought in. No way Rugby Canada would leave their home turf.

 

I don't believe we have enough indoor spectator facilities to host this event without building new facilities. SOFMC, The Q Centre, and CARSA are the only indoor venues with enough seating capacity. Weightlifting could go back to the theater again no problem. But the amount of sports that need indoor space exceeds what we have available. Beach volleyball also needs a temporary venue. Track Cycling standards now also call for indoor venues.



#49 aastra

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 11:42 AM

 

Rest assured that if Victoria wins the bid then it will be determined that our facilities are all in a major need of upgrade and the costs will balloon far beyond the the estimated $1B for security.

 

I don't disagree with your sentiment, but I do wonder how they could ever slip such a large $ number past people without at least a few highly-visible & permanent upgrades. Methinks there would have to be some token permanent upgrades at Centennial Stadium in the very least. Heck, Victorians got a fantastic aquatic centre and some minor stadium upgrades out of 1994.



#50 aastra

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 11:47 AM

 

Beach volleyball also needs a temporary venue.

 

Ogden Point or the field at Beacon Hill Park would be great for something like that. Maybe even the Wharf Street parking lots. What sort of seating capacity would they expect?

 

 

Track Cycling standards now also call for indoor venues.

 

Methinks this would be a very expensive pill to swallow unless it was a temporary (cheaper) enclosure.



#51 North Shore

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 12:05 PM

Methinks this would be a very expensive pill to swallow unless it was a temporary (cheaper) enclosure.

 

True, but perhaps timely, considering the number of high-caliber cyclists that spend time here in the winter...


Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?

#52 spanky123

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 12:58 PM

I don't disagree with your sentiment, but I do wonder how they could ever slip such a large $ number past people without at least a few highly-visible & permanent upgrades. Methinks there would have to be some token permanent upgrades at Centennial Stadium in the very least. Heck, Victorians got a fantastic aquatic centre and some minor stadium upgrades out of 1994.

 

Maybe Helps will talk them into rebuilding Crystal Pool



#53 aastra

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 01:01 PM

How beach volleyball added $20 million to the cost of 2018 Commonwealth Games...

 

 

"We are planning a 5000-seat capacity at the moment. It may well be more economic for us to run a 4000-seat-capacity stadium.

 

"There is just over a $2 million cost of getting the appropriate facilities in to run live broadcasts out of that site.

 

"The addition of shuttle buses etcetera has a cost associated of about $1.5 million. We will need to bring extra staff on to run a venue. Those costs, in terms of paid staff, volunteers that need outfitting etcetera, are in the order of around $1.8 million.

 

"Security costs sit at just under $1 million at the moment. Our security people are working very hard.



#54 spanky123

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 07:23 AM

Looks like Toronto plans to pull out of the bid over concerns related to high costs and risks. The news does not change Victoria's position.

 

http://www.timescolo...feet-1.20294469.


Edited by spanky123, 31 May 2017 - 07:25 AM.


#55 lanforod

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 07:41 AM

If there is no way for Victoria to break even on this, forget it.



#56 spanky123

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 07:43 AM

If there is no way for Victoria to break even on this, forget it.

 

I don't think that there is ever any way a City breaks even on any event unless you give an extremely generous allotment to tourism and economic impact, both of which are intangible.


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#57 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 08:07 AM

I don't think that there is ever any way a City breaks even on any event unless you give an extremely generous allotment to tourism and economic impact, both of which are intangible.

 

I agree, and the CWG has no following outside of... well, the Commonwelth.  Forget about it.


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#58 Nparker

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 08:21 AM

Looks like Toronto plans to pull out of the bid over concerns related to high costs and risks...

The world is not the same as it was in 1994; the security costs alone make this a non-starter from an economic benefit perspective.



#59 aastra

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 08:29 AM

 

The world is not the same as it was in 1994; the security costs alone make this a non-starter...

 

Crime wasn't even invented until 1997. The first prison opened in late 1998.


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#60 spanky123

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 08:29 AM

The problem in Victoria is that you have a lot of retired people looking for something to do and Government folks wanting to build profile for themselves. If they could obtain a level of committment from the Feds and Province on funding then they will be sure to try and spin the balance as a no risk, no brainer for us locals.



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