1261 replies to this topic

[UrbanRail]

I'd be grateful for a citation, if you can provide on.

i will try to find it. but i am pretty sure i am correct

[UrbanRail]

An interesting article in the Cowichan News on Friday.

Province cold to E&N proposal
March 05, 2008

Government funding key: Heavy hitters join forces to promote commuter line
A newly formed powerhouse group announced it’s all aboard in seeking cash for an enhanced E&N rail line, but for now the province won’t buy into the multi-million dollar plan.
Members of First Nations, business, environmental and community leaders announced yesterday the formation of Our Corridor Coalition, a group that plans to join the Island Corridor Foundation and Southern Railway of Vancouver Island to lobby senior governments to rebuild Vancouver Island’s “vital but long neglected E&N rail corridor,” the group said in a release.
The OCC announced from Victoria’s city hall it will ask the province to partner with the feds to help secure $103.8 million to bring the 290 kilometre rail corridor up to North American standards.
“This is a vital opportunity that comes at a critical time for the Island and the railway,” said Jack Peake, chair of the Cowichan Valley Regional District.
“Unless we make major investments to bring the rail infrastructure up to North American standards we could lose the Island’s most important transportation backbone.”
But Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon said he wasn’t buying in.
“Before I would ever approach the federal government to ask for any money towards a rail project like that, we would have to make sure that the homework has been done in terms of the business case, in terms of ensuring that there would be ridership, in terms of the costs that would be involved in putting something like that together, and just the viability of the whole idea,” he said yesterday, moments after the announcement.
“Until I see that information, I certainly wouldn’t even commit at this point to talking to the federal government about it, because I wouldn’t want to be laughed out of the room,” he said.
“Whenever we go to the federal government asking them to share in a project, especially something that people are suggesting is $100 million, we’d better have done our homework, and we certainly have seen no analysis of this that would suggest that it’s a viable option.”
Peake has long been the No. 1 cheerleader for enhanced E&N rail service and, as recently reported exclusively in the News Leader Pictorial, was in Ottawa last month where he met with cabinet ministers, MPs and ministry staff to gain support for the rail line.
Peake had said there was no reason the E&N couldn’t get some government cash because joint-funding money had been allocated to support short line railways in Quebec, Ontario, and Manitoba.
If the group is successful in talking the governments out of the cash, Peake has said it will go directly to fixing the railway that, in its present condition, won’t allow trains to carry substantial cargo or travel at higher speeds.
Ross Tennant, of Three Point Properties, is one of the members of the new coalition and said the investment will have major paybacks for Islanders, business, communities and governments.
“Anything that would help reduce traffic, especially on the Malahat is a good thing,” said the man who’s at the forefront of the company attempting to build a new community on the old Bamberton cement site.
As well, Tennant said freight transportation via the rails is effective and less abusive to the environment than trucking.
“I understand it takes about a quarter of the fuel to move goods by rail rather than by transportation on our roadways,” he said.
Indeed, OCC said it believes the upgraded rail line would take 18,000 truckloads off Vancouver Island’s roads each year.
Others in the OCC include Ernie Elliott, general manager/CEO for Cowichan Tribes, Wayne Coulson, president of Coulson Group of Companies, Robert Davison, Owner of Top Shelf Feeds Inc., Chief Judith Sayers, Hupacasath First Nations and Island Corridor Foundation co-chair, Mary Ashley, also an ICF co-chair, Frank Butzelaar, president of Southern Rail of Vancouver Island & Southern Rail of British Columbia and Gerry Kelly, of Royal Roads University.
But the OCC wants everyone to get involved in helping get the railway back on track and is urging businesses and residents to log onto www.ourcorridor.ca to add their names as supporters and to write or contact Premier Gordon Campbell, Falcon, and their MLA’s in support of the investing in the rail corridor.
— with file from Tom Fletcher

[Nominalis]

Thanks to those who support my opinions. I'm sure I'll write ones that offend you soon enough.

I'd like to address the fact that after a long hard campaign fought by some dedicated Victorians, funding has been secured to build the E&N railtrail. Federal funding of 12 million has been secured to add to local funding. I believe it all comes to about 14.6 mill.

The E&N Railtrail is a done deal and it will be built before any other scheme utilizing the E&N right of way is realized. Any plan to run regular commuter or freight service on that corridor would have to take the Railtrail into account.

The Railtrail would be easy to retro-fit into the existing right-of-way with the bud cars passing twice a day. If we were to have an hourly, faster train running as well as freight then it would be up to the railway to pay for upgrading the bike/walk path so that it would be safe and practical to use. This would cost a lot of money. Up the train ante.

The best estimates for a train is that it would take 700 cars out of the Colwood crawl. Only 700? That's a drop in the bucket compared to the 10's of thousands of cars on that road daily.

A fast cycling route from the Westshore to Victoria could take a lot more cars off the road if gas prices keep going the way they are and if we start to build and promote and infrastructure that's cycling friendly. Such as good bike lock-ups and somewhere to change and shower for those who work in white collar jobs.

The bike/walk E&N Railtrail is much cheaper, greener, healthier and I believe a more permanant somlution than rushing out to buy some Bombardier trains and hoping somebody will ride them.

Hey, we got the funding first, you're just going to have to wait your turn. People walking their kids and dogs after dinner don't need a train, they need a trail.

And BTW, the US cities who have had sucessful trains were the cities where rail made sense, big American towns with lots of people, flat surfaces and no problems enacting emminent domain.

[Mike K.]

I can see Falcon's point, but why must he be so cold? If BCT believes there's demand for BRT from the westshore and the Liberals are all smiles over the idea, why wouldn't a commuter line that will cost a fraction of an LRT line from Langford be any less feasible?

[UrbanRail]

I can see Falcon's point, but why must he be so cold? If BCT believes there's demand for BRT from the westshore and the Liberals are all smiles over the idea, why wouldn't a commuter line that will cost a fraction of an LRT line from Langford be any less feasible?

Mike
Its very simple, the liberals have always been pro highway, rubber tire, bus. They are only pro rail/transit (well sort of) if its in Vancouver. Even when the island went all liberal they did virually nothing for funding transit/rail here in the CRD.

The E&N plan is viable, but Falcon could care less about that, as his attention is on the olympics, gateway and Vancouver (Translink).

What confuses me, is why is Falcon acting like the ICC is asking him for the $104million. Its only about 32million or so (one third the total cost), the local governments and feds are already on board.

But strange things have happened in BC Politics, perhaps he will get a visit by the 3 ghosts of christmas.

We the people of this island have to keep putting pressure on Falcon and Campbell.

[aastra]

A fast cycling route from the Westshore to Victoria could take a lot more cars off the road if gas prices keep going the way they are and if we start to build and promote and infrastructure that's cycling friendly.

I'm a big fan of dedicated cycling routes, but let's be serious. There's no way we could expect a significant number of commuters to cycle back and forth to the west comms. It's too far and the weather is lousy for much of the year.

[Mike K.]

What confuses me, is why is Falcon acting like the ICC is asking him for the $104million. Its only about 32million or so (one third the total cost), the local governments and feds are already on board.

Urbanrail, have the feds committed their share of the cost or are they just expected to commit?

[Nominalis]

Who doesn't love the sound of the E&N's horn blowing as it rolls into Victoria in the late afternoon? You can hear it halfway to Sooke.

But what's going to happen when all those freight and commuter trains are blowing their horns a few times an hour as they go through all the level crossings in the area?

NIMBY is what's going to happen.

aastra, I do believe the statistic is that 6.5% of work commutes into Victoria are now done on bicycle. It's only going to increase and for it to increase we need to provide incentive in the form of cycling ammenities which are phenomenally cheaper and easier to fit into our existing infrastructure than rail.

[Mike K.]

The rest of the world deals with significantly more train traffic than Victoria will ever have, yet in Victoria the little bit of traffic will become a problem of worldly proportions. This broken record of ours just keeps on spinning, don't it?

Common sense prevails here. If you buy a home in the vicinity of an airport, expect jet noise overhead. If you buy a home in the vicinity of train tracks, expect train whistles.

Out of that 6.5% of bicycle commutes, how many are from the west shore heading to downtown, and how many are year-round?

[UrbanRail]

Urbanrail, have the feds committed their share of the cost or are they just expected to commit?

From what I understand, Jack Peake was encouraged by Federal officials and mps to get the ICF to apply to the grant that puts money towards short line upgrades. They havent quite committed officially. the feds arent the problem its the provincial government.

So once money is committed by the local governments and the liberals then the ICF (Island Corridor Foundation) or ICC (Island Corridor Coalition) as its called can go to the feds for the rest of the funding.

[Nominalis]

"This broken record of ours just keeps on spinning, don't it?"

I'm not sure which broken record of "ours" you're talking about, the 1,000s of pro-train posts or the very few posts which challenge the idealistic assumption that "a train" will solve all of our transportation problems.

Did you just drop the "y"?

[Nominalis]

As far as commutes go, when I'm riding south into town on the Goose in the winter I'm blinded by the huge number of bike lights heading out of town at rush hour. When the route is shortened via the E&N Railtrail even more commutes will to and from the Westshore.

As far as bad weather goes, a lot of people are able to survive without a steel and glass canopy protecting them from our rather mild winters.

Looking at this ourcorridor website I see desperation when they have to use such an emotionally manipulative picture that has nothing to do with the issue. I guess if you don't have much of a leg to stand on you have to resort to using children as a shield.

http://www.ourcorridor.ca/

[Mike K.]

Anecdotal information is one thing, but what are the numbers? Those blinding lights coming at you could be going anywhere with (I'm willing to bet) a minority heading into Colwood and beyond.

Nominalis, do you have a personal vendetta against rail transit? I'm pretty sure any rail plan would be happy to share the right of way with a trail, so looking for a problem when there really isn't one doesn't make much sense.

[UrbanRail]

"This broken record of ours just keeps on spinning, don't it?"

I'm not sure which broken record of "ours" you're talking about, the 1,000s of pro-train posts or the very few posts which challenge the idealistic assumption that "a train" will solve all of our transportation problems.

Did you just drop the "y"?

Well first of all, myself or anyone else never said rail would solve "all of our transportation problems", but it supported by good transit connections, bike lanes, pedestrian areas would take care of most of the problems, and over a period of time, the automobile will become less of a factor. It is a tool that is part of the bigger picture. It is something that seriously needs to be looked at. Cycling alone wont solve it either. Also better development practices, supporting of local commerce and environment allows all citizens to benefit.

[UrbanRail]

As far as commutes go, when I'm riding south into town on the Goose in the winter I'm blinded by the huge number of bike lights heading out of town at rush hour. When the route is shortened via the E&N Railtrail even more commutes will to and from the Westshore.

During rush hour, I dont see thousands of cyclists on the goose trail. In fact I see thousands of commuters sitting in their cars slowing moving at a snails pace along the TCH. The goose does its part, but not enough to attract many people out of their cars.

As far as bad weather goes, a lot of people are able to survive without a steel and glass canopy protecting them from our rather mild winters.

If that were the case, those thousands of commuters in their cars would be cycling. I do think that rail and cycling can co-exist.

Looking at this ourcorridor website I see desperation when they have to use such an emotionally manipulative picture that has nothing to do with the issue. I guess if you don't have much of a leg to stand on you have to resort to using children as a shield.

http://www.ourcorridor.ca/

I dont know where you are coming from. But to say that the ICF is using children as a shield to get their point across is bizarre and down right wrong. It is shameful that you would suggest such a thing. Showing the kid in the photo has a lot to do with the subject of rail, because it is a step in the right direction to improving our childrens future.

[gumgum]

I'm thinking Nominalis is just picking a fight because he's bored.

[WSgrrl]

Got to agree that the $100M is way low. The Southern Rail rep said the ties were the biggest ticket item, but I'm thinking the bridges and signals are the scary part - particularly if they are entertaining bring back serious frieght. Did anyone that attended that launch hear when they would present their business plan? you dont get investment without one.

I seem to recall a mayor of one of those wacky western communities suggesting a couple of seimens deisel commuter trains about 10 years ago, and was shot down. Sounds like a good place to start a LRT as any, with few upgrades requried.

What about an express bus service that could hop on the tracks as well? Similar to those maintenance trucks the rail guys use.

[UrbanRail]

Got to agree that the $100M is way low. The Southern Rail rep said the ties were the biggest ticket item, but I'm thinking the bridges and signals are the scary part - particularly if they are entertaining bring back serious frieght. Did anyone that attended that launch hear when they would present their business plan? you dont get investment without one.

The figure may be low, but it depends on what sort of upgrades are needed. I think this is to get things started. As far as I know, they have already submitted the business plan, but so far no response from the liberals, except a comment from Falcon saying he doesnt see any future of rail on the island.

I seem to recall a mayor of one of those wacky western communities suggesting a couple of seimens deisel commuter trains about 10 years ago, and was shot down. Sounds like a good place to start a LRT as any, with few upgrades requried.

That was in the late 90's. Langford was all for it, but no one else was, apparently Siemens spent $10,000 promoting the demonstation run on the E&N between the westshore and Victoria. They were pretty ticked about spending that money and finding out no one gave a hoot. They wont come back until we get our act together

What about an express bus service that could hop on the tracks as well? Similar to those maintenance trucks the rail guys use.

I have heard of that before and there is very little support for that, as its still a bus.

[van-island]

The price of oil hit $110 last week, and has been hovering over $100 for a while now.

Many of our communities and neighbourhoods have been destroyed, and our streets given over, all thanks to the car.

Millions of cars spend hours on end stuck in traffic, spewing toxic fumes into the air. Whole streets on arterial roads have become pedestrian wastelands thanks to traffic.

***

I think cars should be an integral part of the transportation system, but the situation as it stands is:

-Unstable: Our transportation system is currently subject to the price of oil, something we have little control over.

-Unfair: Should those who choose to walk and ride have all their streets ruined by incessant and noisy traffic?

-Unhealthy: Cars pollute the environment and our air.

-Dangerous: More people die in car-related accidents every year than all other traffic modes combined.

Anyone care to add to the list?

A network of light rail and streetcars connected by pedestrian streets and bike and bus routes significantly improves almost all of the above problems.

What's not to love?

[UrbanRail]

A couple of articles on the E&N.

Article One from the TC on Monday.

Thorough plan needed for E&N
Times Colonist
Published: Monday, March 10, 2008
Before rushing ahead and spending $103.8 million to upgrade the Esquimalt and Nanaimo Railway line, the line's new owners and operators should map out a long-range vision for that transportation corridor.

It's good that the long-neglected railway is in the hands of a local dedicated group, Our Corridor Coalition. However, as a comprehensive analysis suggests, bringing the railway up to North American standards represents a challenge not for the faint of heart.

Admittedly, it's a good time to be talking about the value of a railway. Railways are seen to be environmentally friendly, because they can reduce the number of trucks using our highways and producing greenhouse gases. And commuter rail lines can take hundreds of private vehicles off the roads.


The E&N right of way certainly has great potential as a commuter line -- which is precisely why that potential needs to be explored in critical detail before sinking $100 million into repairs that will only maintain the status quo.

Among the details that need to be addressed are the revenue streams -- fares, taxes and grants -- that will pay for the project. A plan also needs to identify what to do with the level crossings along the route, as well as the cost of double tracking, including potential property acquisition.

In the 1990s, German industrial giant Siemens offered diesel cars for a trial commuter run along the railway. Langford Mayor Stew Young and his council got behind the project but couldn't convince other municipalities to join in.

In January, Langford again led a movement to introduce commuter rail to the E&N. A consultant estimated it would cost $2 million a year to operate as well as $16 million to build up to five stations, upgrade the tracks and lease the railcar.

That figure now looks overly optimistic given the corridor coalition's estimate for upgrading the entire line.

If the coalition wants to pursue something bigger, then it should think really big -- and work out a complete and comprehensive vision for the railway and how it will mesh with and enhance the Island's transportation network. A business case, in other words.

That's a logical step to take. It's important to know the full cost of a viable rail service -- not just the cost of the getting the infrastructure up to standard.




© Times Colonist (Victoria) 2008