Jump to content

      












Photo

[James Bay - Victoria] Ogden Point


  • Please log in to reply
75 replies to this topic

#1 gumgum

gumgum
  • Member
  • 7,069 posts

Posted 03 May 2008 - 09:05 AM

Seeing as it's a significant tract of land, I figured it might be appropriate that Ogden Point has its own thread.


A-Channel News:
Ogden Point Undergoes Makeover

#2 UrbanRail

UrbanRail
  • Member
  • 2,114 posts
  • LocationVictoria

Posted 03 May 2008 - 02:11 PM

Its just a band-aid solution. It doesn't address the need to build a proper facility (similar to Canada Place). But I guess the Olympics and Vancouver are top priorities and as usual we on the island get shafted.

There is so much potential at Ogden Pt. A mixed use facility; light industrial, residential, commerical and office space are possible.

#3 gumgum

gumgum
  • Member
  • 7,069 posts

Posted 03 May 2008 - 02:47 PM

Too bad our local politicians don't have enough balls and creativity to take it on.

#4 Coreyburger

Coreyburger
  • Member
  • 2,864 posts

Posted 03 May 2008 - 04:38 PM

I suspect the issue is more that the land is owned by the prov/fed government and thus changing it would require their permission.

#5 G-Man

G-Man

    Senior Case Officer

  • Moderator
  • 13,266 posts

Posted 03 May 2008 - 05:01 PM

^ i believe it is now owned by the Harbour authority.

#6 Nparker

Nparker
  • Member
  • 29,210 posts

Posted 03 May 2008 - 07:29 PM

I doubt we'll see much of an improved port facility at Ogden Point any time soon, although I for one, would strongly support it.

First off, there is simply no will on the part of the federal and provincial governments to fund significant upgrades to this location. Their main reason being that Victoria simply does not see the level of ship passenger traffic to warrant this type of infrastructure investment.

The only way I can imagine seeing improvements here, even on the scale of 50% of what is in Vancouver, would be to convince the major cruise lines to start using Victoria as an Embarkation/Disembarkation port for some of the Alaska, coastal or even Hawaiian cruises. I don't see this happening as the number of international flights to Victoria cannot currently supply the needed passenger volume. As simply a "port of call", the facilities at Ogden Point are as good as I have seen at many places I have called upon on the numerous cruises I have taken. Granted they are not pretty, and the ammenties here are extremely limited, but the goal is to get passengers into the city and around the region to spend their money - not just spend it at the pier. How pretty does Ogden Point need to be just to serve as a parking lot for tour busses and taxis?

The catch-22 is that until improved facilities are built, the cruise lines will never look at Victoria this way, and until the cruise lines use Victoria this way, the necessary funding will not be forthcoming.

#7 gumgum

gumgum
  • Member
  • 7,069 posts

Posted 03 May 2008 - 07:57 PM

UrbanRail has pointed out that there is plenty of room for both a cruise ship facility and mixed use.
Hopefully in my lifetime I'll see Ogden Point turn into another Dockside Green, with a fully operational cruise ship facility.

#8 UrbanRail

UrbanRail
  • Member
  • 2,114 posts
  • LocationVictoria

Posted 03 May 2008 - 08:15 PM

Their main reason being that Victoria simply does not see the level of ship passenger traffic to warrant this type of infrastructure investment.
The catch-22 is that until improved facilities are built, the cruise lines will never look at Victoria this way, and until the cruise lines use Victoria this way, the necessary funding will not be forthcoming.



Having over 200 cruise ships visiting us each year warrants a better facility. I feel the city isnt promoting this opportunity very well.

#9 Ms. B. Havin

Ms. B. Havin
  • Member
  • 5,052 posts

Posted 13 June 2008 - 09:44 AM

Do we have a James Bay Neighbourhood thread already? If so, moderators might want to move this as it's generally about James Bay, and only about Ogden Point in terms of cruise ships & transport creating air pollution...

From today's T-C:

James Bay air pollution less than average
But residents remain concerned about neighbourhood exhaust
Carla Wilson, Times Colonist

Published: Friday, June 13, 2008

A new study, showing air quality in James Bay is below the capital region average, is not quelling residents' concerns over the volume of exhaust emissions in the neighbourhood.

Conducted by University of Victoria and University of Vancouver Island researchers, the study shows pollution levels below national maximum levels and less than annual averages in the capital region. (more....)


When you buy a game, you buy the rules. Play happens in the space between the rules.

#10 amor de cosmos

amor de cosmos

    BUILD

  • Member
  • 5,822 posts

Posted 27 September 2008 - 08:16 AM

I don't know whether anything is planned as far as this goes, but the Ogden Pt terminal needs expansion. I don't think there's a thread for Ogden Pt stuff yet is there?

Victoria port short $4 million for cruise ship infrastructure

Carla Wilson, Canwest News Service
Published: Saturday, September 27, 2008

VICTORIA -- Victoria is celebrating three decades of counting cruise ship visits to Ogden Point, but the old port is short $4 million for new infrastructure to handle larger ships.

Friday's arrival of the Golden Princess marked visit No. 2,000 since 1978, a turning point in the cruise industry and for Ogden Point as well, said Paul Servos, CEO of the Greater Victoria Harbour Authority.

The first ship of the season 30 years ago was the Pacquet Line's 500-passenger Renaissance. It weighed 12,000 tons and was 150 metres long. It was the year following a massive fire that roared through Ogden Point, destroying its warehouse.

That was also a period when, "the modern cruise ship movement really started," Servos said. Earlier, ships had often been converted to passenger vessels, but increasingly purpose-built cruise ships were being launched.

Cruising out of Victoria dated back long before 1978, when steamships carried passengers to and from Alaska.

Ogden Point's transition in the past 30 years reflects fundamental changes in B.C.'s economy.

At one time, industries such as lumber and fishing were Ogden Point's main business.

"Today, we are exactly the opposite. The cruise ship is the dominant business and we fit in other ships as we can," Servos said.

The economic impact in Greater Victoria from the cruise industry in 2007 was estimated to be between $250 million and $275 million, based on an analysis done for the Northwest Cruise Ship Association.

Back in 1970, Sam Lane, chairman of the Greater Victoria Visitors Bureau, called the cruise industry "quite a bonanza" to downtown Victoria merchants because passengers and crew spent an estimated $250,000 in all.

By 1978, the revenue estimate had climbed to $1 million. Each visitor was thought to spend $25 to $50 per day, and money also came in through services and fees for the 30 ship visits.

This year, a record 201 visits, with 400,000 passengers are expected. The season wraps up Oct. 14 when the Celebrity Mercury leaves Ogden Point.

Cruise ship visits were tallied in preparation for an upcoming party in May, at the start of the next cruise ship season, to herald the arrival of the three millionth cruise ship visitor, Servos said.

Another record year for visits looks likely. The number of visits in 2009 will likely be "slightly higher" than this year, he said.

New infrastructure is required to accommodate ships.

Other issues include continuing to work the with James Bay neighbourhood on concerns about traffic and pollution and encouraging downtown businesses to stay open, especially in the shoulder season, in the evenings when cruise ships arrive.

http://www.canada.co...455a8e7&k=74654

#11 gumgum

gumgum
  • Member
  • 7,069 posts

Posted 27 September 2008 - 08:37 AM

I'm pretty sure this is the third ogden point thread now. :)

#12 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 63,970 posts

Posted 27 September 2008 - 10:00 AM

I've merged the last two posts into this thread.

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#13 amor de cosmos

amor de cosmos

    BUILD

  • Member
  • 5,822 posts

Posted 27 September 2008 - 12:42 PM

Its just a band-aid solution. It doesn't address the need to build a proper facility (similar to Canada Place). But I guess the Olympics and Vancouver are top priorities and as usual we on the island get shafted.

There is so much potential at Ogden Pt. A mixed use facility; light industrial, residential, commerical and office space are possible.


Too bad our local politicians don't have enough balls and creativity to take it on.


Come on, Victoria is a tourist town! Upgrading the Ogden Pt facilities should be the easiest decision our politicians (& non-politicians) could ever possibly have to make! :D

#14 jklymak

jklymak
  • Member
  • 3,514 posts

Posted 27 September 2008 - 01:42 PM

The economic impact in Greater Victoria from the cruise industry in 2007 was estimated to be between $250 million and $275 million, based on an analysis done for the Northwest Cruise Ship Association.

By 1978, the revenue estimate had climbed to $1 million. Each visitor was thought to spend $25 to $50 per day, and money also came in through services and fees for the 30 ship visits.

This year, a record 201 visits, with 400,000 passengers are expected. The season wraps up Oct. 14 when the Celebrity Mercury leaves Ogden Point.


Wow, that's like $700/passenger of economic impact. Either these numbers are off or the spin-off benefits are estimated to be huge. Anyone know how those numbers were arrived at?

Not to say improving Ogden Point wouldn't be welcome.

#15 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 63,970 posts

Posted 27 September 2008 - 09:48 PM

Some ships will stock up on supplies and use local professionals for certain services. But still, $250 million is an awful lot of money.

And just a thought, but do cruise ships pay docking fees and/or discharged visitor fees?

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#16 Bernard

Bernard
  • Member
  • 5,036 posts
  • LocationVictoria BC

Posted 28 September 2008 - 10:02 AM

Every industry does, this, they take their spending and add a multiplier effect. It is a bad practice and makes for bad economic analysis.

As I understand it, the people on the ships spend about $150 each and the crews about $50 or $60.

Direct economic impact of the cruise ships is much more likely in the range of $50-$60 million. Calculated out to a job impact in Victoria, this is worth about 600 full time equivalent jobs.

#17 amor de cosmos

amor de cosmos

    BUILD

  • Member
  • 5,822 posts

Posted 30 March 2009 - 01:55 PM

March 30, 2009
Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure

VICTORIA TOURISM BENEFITS FROM OGDEN POINT UPGRADE

VICTORIA – The Province is contributing $1.5 million through the Transportation Partnerships Program toward the construction of an offshore mooring pile at Ogden Point cruise ship terminal, which will improve the terminal’s berthing capacity.

The announcement was made today by Transportation and Infrastructure Minister Kevin Falcon, Tourism, Culture and the Arts Minister Bill Bennett, Minister of Small Business, Technology and Economic Development Ida Chong, and Greater Victoria Harbour Authority chair Don Prittie.

“Through the Transportation Partnerships Program, we are making significant investments in infrastructure at our air and sea ports across the province,” said Falcon. “The cruise ship industry is an important driver of Victoria’s economy, and this project will ensure that the newer, larger cruise ships will be able to dock here.”

“Last fall, I asked leaders from the Greater Victoria Harbor Authority, Tourism Victoria and the Victoria Chamber of Commerce for their top tourism-related priorities for Victoria. Increased capacity at the Ogden Point cruise ship terminal was a top priority on each list,” said Bennett. “The result of this partnership will produce a much needed asset for tourism in Victoria."

The $4.5 million project will see a single-pile mooring dolphin anchored in the seabed 70 metres off the end of Pier B at Ogden Point, extending the berthing ability of the pier without extending the pier itself. With the mooring dolphin in place, the next generation of cruise ships, at 350 metres long, can make Victoria a port of call. Pier B at Ogden Point is 244 metres long.

“The ability for larger cruise ships to berth in Victoria is a competitive advantage for the terminal, and a positive for the Capital Region’s economy,” said Chong. “It’s estimated that the new ships serving Alaska will increase direct spending in our community by over $1.8 million annually.”

“This is great news for Greater Victoria,” said Don Prittie, chair of the Greater Victoria Harbour Authority. “The pier extension project is essential for the safety and retention of the current ships calling our city. The project will enable the Ogden Point Terminal to be uniquely positioned to welcome the next generation of cruise ships.”

The Province is providing the Greater Victoria Harbour Authority with one-third of total project costs, up to $1.5 million. With this investment, the Province’s Transportation Partnerships Program has provided over $65 million for improvements at 36 air and marine ports across the province since 2003.

http://www2.news.gov...0031-000564.htm

#18 G-Man

G-Man

    Senior Case Officer

  • Moderator
  • 13,266 posts

Posted 30 March 2009 - 02:03 PM

This is interesting more in what it infers...

We saw last week that this new mooring dolphin is required to bring in the new super cruise ships that won't be able to berth in Vancouver. However it was also pointed out that there would be little point in doing that unless we were also made a starting point for the cruises but that required an expansion to the runway at YYJ. So if this is approved it would be a big waste of money if they were not also going to approve the runway expansion... I am getting excited!!

#19 rjag

rjag
  • Member
  • 6,175 posts
  • LocationSi vis pacem para bellum

Posted 30 March 2009 - 03:33 PM

As one door closes another opens!

With the recent announcements of some cruise ships moving from Vancouver to Seattle this may mean that more ships will more likely stop here when departing Seattle than in Vancouver.

This can only be construed as good news.

Now if we could only pretty up the buildings at Ogden Point......

#20 AllseeingEye

AllseeingEye

    AllSeeingEye

  • Member
  • 4,964 posts
  • LocationGorge-Selkirk

Posted 30 March 2009 - 04:32 PM

Why Rjag I _am surprised at you...why didn't you know that according to a quote attributed to our very own Pam Madoff just last summer the Victoria Waterfront and associated walkways (I'm paraphrasing here) are "as good if not better than Vancouver's". If nothing else it made for a good belly laugh.....

Clearly she has never taken in the view from Kits Beach, Granville Island, the north side of False Creek, 3rd Beach, Stanley Park etc, ad infinitum, ad nauseum: I agree with you 100% re: Ogden Point though. It has potential written all over it. The $64,000 question, as with all things "Victoria", is whether there is also the Will and above all the Vision to match...

In fact you could argue from Ogden Point, as well as the approaches to the city over (either) bridge from the west, that the Victoria waterfront - as it currently stands - is one of the most underutilized and least attractive aspects of the city. Looking across from Dockside toward d/t, or especially from the water across the vast asphalt expanse that is Ogden Point, you'd be very hard pressed to convince me of the 'superiority' of the Victoria waterfront over anyone else's, and especially Vancouver. IMO.

You're not quite at the end of this discussion topic!

Use the page links at the lower-left to go to the next page to read additional posts.
 



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users