2343 replies to this topic

[G-Man]

I was shocked by the Focus article against it which described the marina as a seizure of public property? But how does this differ from any other marina that is already there. Oh wait those other ones are already there.

What a load.

[Jacques Cadé]

One more advantage of the marina: if their owners suddenly go bankrupt, we'll have some spectacular wrecks sitting around our harbour. See this article in today's New York Times: Boats Too Costly to Keep Are Littering Coastlines

[Holden West]

^I would hope that before they sank to the bottom of the Inner Harbour those abandoned yachts could be used as floating youth hostels.

[Icebergalley]

I was shocked by the Focus article against it which described the marina as a seizure of public property? But how does this differ from any other marina that is already there. Oh wait those other ones are already there.

What a load.

Yes, G-Man, public property is required to make this project go. The developer requires a 6.5 acre waterlot from us, the citizens of BC, to carry out the development. They are seeking a 30 year lease on waters that today are shared by many non motorized vessels and other mariners. It's not like they have acquired a block of downtown Victoria and are proposing to build on their own property. They have two small waterlots of their own at the shore by Royal Quays but need the adjacent crown waterlot to moor the large yachts.

The location and extent of this project, it's limitation to 65' yachts and up, makes this project different from the type of marina's that we see in Victoria at the moment. Also, the site itself on an exposed shoreline also makes it different. Consult the aerial photos and you will see that the current marinas in the Harbour area are generally tucked into more sheltered spaces.. vis a vis the Strait... One can argue against the location on suitability, more than on capability, or feasibility, but, even at the feasibility stage, having to provide a floating wave attenuator (breakwater) sure makes it a costly project, needing big rents to carry the cost...

On the suitability side of the location analysis, in my opinion, taking 6.5 acres of shared waters form Victoria's Harbour to moor large yachts is akin to taking 6.5 acres of Beacon Hill Park to put up an RV park
.
Would any prudent government entertain an application to do that?

http://www.savevictoriaharbour.com

[G-Man]

^yes

How is this any different then any of the other marinas that are all over the harbour?

The only difference is that they are already there.

This is just another example of the sad Victorian fear of change.

[Koru]

^yes

How is this any different then any of the other marinas that are all over the harbour?

The only difference is that they are already there.

This is just another example of the sad Victorian fear of change.

Amen my friend! Amen!

[Phil McAvity]

Icebergalley obviously didn't read my post. Here's something I found at his/her website's forum though, "But a marina that is gated, purpose-built to attract and berth mega-yachts of super-rich owners from elsewhere, 3 stories high, is about spoils: it would spoil the natural shoreline and radically alter the harbour’s recreational use; and it would be an in-your-face daily reminder of the outsized financial spoils of greedy excess."

So rather than having any kind of rational argument against the marina, the people opposed, simply hate the rich. There's nothing like the truth to hurt one's cause. It's nice to see that hate is alive and well in Victoria too.

[spanky123]

The issue I have is that proponents of the Marina claims that the city will expose itself to million of dollars in lawsuits should they not approve this development as the property is already zoned for a marina.

My understanding is that the claim is not true since, as icebergallery point out, the proposal actually requires that additional "land" be allocated in order to proceed and it is that additional space that is at issue. If the proponents want to create a Marina with what they already have then they are free to do so.

[pseudotsuga]

I agree with most of Phil's points - except that even if kayakers are few, my guess is that there are far more local kayakers currently using the space than there will ever be local boaters using the marina as proposed. I think their concerns are important.

[Caramia]

I agree there. I am just having trouble figuring out if they are jumping on a bandwagon in typical Victoria style - opposing the project without taking the time to learn the details or try negotiation and compromise - or if they have objections grounded in good research and failure from the proponents to engage in discussion.

If the kayakers have listened to what is proposed and tried to get their needs met in a respectful way, I'm going to side with them.

[pseudotsuga]

A letter from the paddling community on the site Icebergalley posted is pretty clear:
http://www.savevicto...KrisTerauds.pdf

Here is the application itself:
http://www.arfd.bc.c...sp?PostID=10349

[G-Man]

^ Pure doomsday stuff that will never come true. I have nothing against kayaking but seriously why is it so much more important than anywhere else.

I mean you would think that they were filling in the entire gorge. I somehow doubt that this will mean an end to kayaking as we know it.

[amor de cosmos]

^ Pure doomsday stuff that will never come true. I have nothing against kayaking but seriously why is it so much more important than anywhere else.

I mean you would think that they were filling in the entire gorge. I somehow doubt that this will mean an end to kayaking as we know it.

I don't have a problem with a marina at that location, but maybe not that specific one, if it's difficult for kayakers to get around it & also avoid the runway & Pelly Island. I don't know why they they think they need to go to John Baird over a 6(?) acre marina since it isn't really a national issue. & calling their website "savevictoriaharbour.com" does sound pretty hysterical. One marina getting won't be some irreparable catastrophe that will ruin the harbour for everybody.

[pseudotsuga]

Well, I agree that the naysayers are a bit shrill. Unfortunately that is probably the easiest way to bring attention to the issues and galvanize support.

[amor de cosmos]

Mega-yacht marina plan faces public scrutiny
By Carla Wilson, Times Colonist
April 4, 2009 6:52 AM

The federal government, after lobbying by Victoria MP Denise Savoie, has agreed to call a public meeting to discuss whether a controversial mega-yacht marina should be built in Victoria's harbour.

Savoie said she expects the decision to hold the meeting will delay the issuing of federal permits for the proposed $20-million marina, which features 48 berths for large luxury yachts in front of the Songhees area.

[...]

http://www.timescolo...4754/story.html

[Phil McAvity]

^ I read the article that Savoie wrote opposing the marina and I couldn't find one salient point she made. This simply boils down to left-wingers hating really rich people and not wanting them here, except i'd like to see them here, spending some of their riches, along with the crews spending their money too. I'm also quite certain that the harbour will be wide enough to accommodate the marina and all the traffic.

[VicHockeyFan]

^ I read the article that Savoie wrote opposing the marina and I couldn't find one salient point she made. This simply boils down to left-wingers hating really rich people and not wanting them here, except i'd like to see them here, spending some of their riches, along with the crews spending their money too. I'm also quite certain that the harbour will be wide enough to accommodate the marina and all the traffic.

I agree.

[spanky123]

^ I read the article that Savoie wrote opposing the marina and I couldn't find one salient point she made. This simply boils down to left-wingers hating really rich people and not wanting them here, except i'd like to see them here, spending some of their riches, along with the crews spending their money too. I'm also quite certain that the harbour will be wide enough to accommodate the marina and all the traffic.

No doubt that there is some truth to this but if the proponents are smart they will entirely discount what is going on in the world around us. Whether it is warranted or not, the attitude towards the ultra wealthy has diminshed quite a bit with people losing their jobs at the same time the rich get million dollar bonuses from the boards of their defunct companies.

[Icebergalley]

I agree there. I am just having trouble figuring out if they are jumping on a bandwagon in typical Victoria style - opposing the project without taking the time to learn the details or try negotiation and compromise - or if they have objections grounded in good research and failure from the proponents to engage in discussion.

If the kayakers have listened to what is proposed and tried to get their needs met in a respectful way, I'm going to side with them.

Carimia...

Perhaps reviewing this letter help you make your decision. Many other paddlers have read, attended the developers open house, asked questions, evaluated and chosen to say whoa!!!!

http://www.savevicto...cottParfitt.pdf

[Koru]

Carimia...

Perhaps reviewing this letter help you make your decision. Many other paddlers have read, attended the developers open house, asked questions, evaluated and chosen to say whoa!!!!

http://www.savevicto...cottParfitt.pdf

I personally find this letter, like all the other letters that the anti-marina crowd are floating around are just pure drivel. If it isn't the mega yachts that are a problem its the float planes, if it isn't the float planes its the whale watchers. The users of the harbor constantly have something to whine and moan about, now its just the anti-rich crowd whining about the "rich" marina. I think the arguments are from a relatively small number of paddlers, and rowers, against a small number of private marina users is a moot point and waste of our resources. The marina should be built, and will continue to expand our harbors horizons and allow us to continue to integrate varying classes, and uses of the harbor. I've been a recreational paddlers since I was 13, so 11 years off and on using the harbor and never found issues with big boats, planes or marinas, one more marina will not destroy the harbors flow of traffic and appeal, if anything it will expand it.