40 replies to this topic

[amor de cosmos]

What does everyone think of this? In case some people don't already post on Skyscraperpage.com here's a thread about it:
http://forum.skyscra...ad.php?t=152663

[jklymak]

W/o reading the whole thread, I agree with the writers who think it is technically unfeasible.

[amor de cosmos]

W/o reading the whole thread, I agree with the writers who think it is technically unfeasible.

from Swartz Bay to Tsawassen anyway..... I also think Victoria could just become a suburb of Vancouver if there were a road link.

[Nparker]

A fixed link will be built sometime after the following headline appears in the Times-Colonist:

"Saudi Arabian developers to build 250-story tower on site of Emily Carr's birthplace" - Councillor-for-life Madoff says 'I'm thrilled'. "Finally James Bay can have a building of which to be proud".

[Koru]

A fixed link will be built sometime after the following headline appears in the Times-Colonist:

"Saudi Arabian developers to build 250-story tower on site of Emily Carr's birthplace" - Councillor-for-life Madoff says 'I'm thrilled'. "Finally James Bay can have a building of which to be proud".

I think you should add that one into the Ultimate Rumor Thread - I want to be the Tower Crane Operator on that one, although if there are any pilots around here, watch out eh?

[Holden West]

Every few months another dumb fixed link thread appears on Skyscraper Page. Here's the bottom line on why it will NEVER happen:

-Too deep for a regular bridge or tunnel. Too much ocean traffic and unpredictable weather for a floating bridge. The Hood Canal Bridge in Washington needs replacing and it's not even 50 years old (and did I mention it sank in 1979? Oops.)

-It would still need to be maintained by an army of workers who can strike just as easily as ferry workers can.

-The toll would be astronomical. Flying may be a cheaper option. The government simply doesn't have this money to spend. It would have to be privately financed and investors would need at least a 15% return on such a high risk construction project.

-This would not be a scenic trip. Long bridges like this have high walls to prevent driver fatigue and distraction. It would be like 45 minutes in a parking garage at highway speeds.

-Winter. Imagine plowing a bridge of this length every snowfall.

There are more but I'll stop here.

[aastra]

I still say my rail tunnel concept through the San Juans is perfectly viable, assuming the cash/motivation are there. In a hundred years...we'll see.

[aastra]

I also think Victoria could just become a suburb of Vancouver if there were a road link.

Or vice versa.

[gumgum]

Every few months another dumb fixed link thread appears on Skyscraper Page. Here's the bottom line on why it will NEVER happen:

-Too deep for a regular bridge or tunnel. Too much ocean traffic and unpredictable weather for a floating bridge. The Hood Canal Bridge in Washington needs replacing and it's not even 50 years old (and did I mention it sank in 1979? Oops.)

-It would still need to be maintained by an army of workers who can strike just as easily as ferry workers can.

-The toll would be astronomical. Flying may be a cheaper option. The government simply doesn't have this money to spend. It would have to be privately financed and investors would need at least a 15% return on such a high risk construction project.

-This would not be a scenic trip. Long bridges like this have high walls to prevent driver fatigue and distraction. It would be like 45 minutes in a parking garage at highway speeds.

-Winter. Imagine plowing a bridge of this length every snowfall.

There are more but I'll stop here.

All those and the fact that it would be complete suicidal lunacy for the politician in power to take this on.

I don't like to say things like this with such resoluteness, but this will never, ever happen in our lifetime.

[gumgum]

And by strange coincidence - this story in today's TC:

Ferry CEO offers to survey Gabriola residents on bridge
Fixed-link toll bridge concept renews old debate pitting pastoral lifestyle against convenience
Jonathan Fowlie, Canwest News Service
Published: Saturday, June 28, 2008

[Ms. B. Havin]

Best part of article, imo, were these sound bites from André Lemieux, "chair of the Gabriola Ferry Advisory Committee, [who] bristled even at the mention of reopening the bridge debate."

Lemieux articulated (in miniature) some of the arguments you hear from recent Victorians:

When asked why the issue is so sensitive, Lemieux said people become extremely attached to their island lifestyle, and see it in jeopardy if getting there becomes too easy.

"People have moved to Gabriola for a way of life. That's their issue -- I'm not saying it's my point of view," he said. "They come over here and they don't want to have a bridge, because if they do their way of life will be the same as what they left."

You know, if that's the case then they can't complain about the ferry rates. You can't have it both ways: splendid isolation (and the privileged exaltation that brings) and cheap access.

Now, as for Victoria: I don't think we can afford "splendid isolation" in a networked, interconnected, global world. So, while I understand the technical impediments to a fixed link for Victoria, I would never support the idea that we live "on an island" because we need to stay "away from it all."

BTW, interesting, too, that it's the price of oil that drove Hahn to offering to undertake this survey of Gabriola residents.

[Baro]

Poor england just became a suburb of europe after they built the chunnel.

[Mike K.]

^yeah, suckers.

So as the population grows, are we going to keep spending billions on new ferries? Eventually building and operating such behemoths will be as costly as building some form of a fixed link. Whether the time comes in 50 years or 250, it's irresponsible for us to say it will never happen.

[yodsaker]

Poor england just became a suburb of europe after they built the chunnel.

Brings to mind the famous Victorian news headline, "Continent cut off by storm.":)
Vancouverites would never go for a fixed link.
No way they want to be contaminated by hairy, plaid-shirted, Birkenstock-wearing hordes from Vanisle.
And those are just the women!

[gumgum]

^yeah, suckers.

So as the population grows, are we going to keep spending billions on new ferries? Eventually building and operating such behemoths will be as costly as building some form of a fixed link. Whether the time comes in 50 years or 250, it's irresponsible for us to say it will never happen.

If we're still on this forum in 50 years and they build one, Mike I will buy you a car. In our lifetime, we will never see one. I'm pretty damn sure of this.

[VicHockeyFan]

Poor england just became a suburb of europe after they built the chunnel.

Exactly. If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times. No one is going to commute if the cost is $50 each way daily. That's $2200 per month for a daily commuter.

Price the link correctly and we are fine.

[amor de cosmos]

If we're still on this forum in 50 years and they build one, Mike I will buy you a car. In our lifetime, we will never see one. I'm pretty damn sure of this.

Not from Swartz Bay to Tsawassen anyway.... on the Skyscraperpage.com thread about this some guy known as "amor de cosmos" posted some stuff about the CPR's fixed-link ideas from the 1870s:
http://forum.skyscra...44s#post3630844
http://forum.skyscra...593#post3631593
http://forum.skyscra...792#post3635792
& a map here:
http://forum.skyscra...011#post3640011

[Mike K.]

If we're still on this forum in 50 years and they build one, Mike I will buy you a car. In our lifetime, we will never see one. I'm pretty damn sure of this.

I'll hold you to that!

But I still think it's irresponsible for us to say it will never happen. Society is too concerned with the present to think ahead into the future so we have a difficult time thinking beyond 50 years. Hell, 150 years ago there was no Victoria and no Vancouver to speak of. In 150 years who knows what will become of southwest BC and the sorts of infrastructure requirements the region will have.

Below is a map aastra posted on SkyscraperPage (in one of the links Amor posted above). Seems like a reasonable fixed link to the island, don't you think?

[Baro]

Way too much border crossing nightmares to build that bridge. In europe they can do stuff like that but we'd have to have some sort of terrifying union or very strong agreement with the US to really build a link like that. For pure geography that's a reasonable path (if we had the future-engineering to build it) but politically it would be impossible.

[yodsaker]

No worries, it will all be USA eventually.
We have what they need and they won't be shy about "faire le necessaire".