3308 replies to this topic

[Nparker]

While I don't foresee the Jones Act regulations being rescinded any time soon (especially if it meant American owned ships having to pay American wages to their staff & crew - if so cruise the industry would cease to function), I am basing my comments entirely on Victoria's track record of accomplishing anything in regards to enhancing its waterfront. I have lived here close to 40 years and perhaps with the exception of the removal of the Undersea Gardens from the Inner Harbour, there is scant difference in the look of anything from the Johnson Street Bridge to Clover Point in all of that time (private waterfront development notwithstanding). When it comes to the waterside public realm we have been stagnating for decades and I just don't see this as changing.

[johnk]

Yet another decades-in-the-future scheme.
How about a real downtown ferry terminal instead of the mishmash of huts?

[HB]

Throwing money at Ogden is throwing money into the toilet however in the end it is the cruise ship passengers who will fund any development  there because the Victoria Harbour Authority wrings every last penny from the passengers like an Indian burn to a person on their death bed. When the passengers arrive over 90% of them are on their final evening of the cruise and this again is a destination where they are milked for every last penny and by more than one entity. Building a fancy thing down there is a joke. Do passengers really want to get off a ship on their last night and hang out on a pier even if it has a nice building?

[VicHockeyFan]

Well they've got the land might as well do something with it.

[UrbanRail]

Anything is better than the current concrete pad that sits there now. In many ways Ogden point is an eyesore with it being basically a large parking lot, kind of like what's at wharf st. What I would have preferred to see is more emphasis on pedestrian and cycling traffic than on automobile use.

I predict that water transport will become even more important in the next few decades and utilizing this part of Victoria as a major marine terminal would be in Victoria's best interests. Now is focusing on just the cruise ships wise? Probably not, so a development that has local citizens in mind would be ideal. One could base new ferry services or clipper type connections at Ogden Pt.

I think it was NParker that said we dream big, but in the end nothing will happen, especially with how the JBNA refuses to allow a whole lot to happen right now.

Several interesting proposals have come and gone which I have felt would have been a good addition to the inner harbour, but that status quo mantra remains strong here. I am not suggesting huge condo towers or suburban type shopping malls, but something that as was suggested in the article, a new maritime museum, perhaps a new archives, a college campus as well as arts or theatre or a science world perhaps. Downtown Victoria needs to figure out how a way to attract young families downtown in much the same way that Vancouver has.

How does this relate to Ogden Pt?

We know that industry isn't coming back, so we need to figure out a new vision that fulfills the needs of residents now and into the future. One that we can all agree on.

[lanforod]

Throwing money at Ogden is throwing money into the toilet however in the end it is the cruise ship passengers who will fund any development there because the Victoria Harbour Authority wrings every last penny from the passengers like an Indian burn to a person on their death bed. When the passengers arrive over 90% of them are on their final evening of the cruise and this again is a destination where they are milked for every last penny and by more than one entity. Building a fancy thing down there is a joke. Do passengers really want to get off a ship on their last night and hang out on a pier even if it has a nice building?

Have you ever cruised? Every cruise destination triies to milk every last penny. Also, sure, it's the last destination, but that doesn't mean much. It can boost spending as well as cut, as people have one last chance to buy stuff etc. for Americans, shopping here is cheap now. A week cruise is also very short, for most people, it flies by so quickly you wish you'd gone longer!

[UrbanRail]

While I don't foresee the Jones Act regulations being rescinded any time soon (especially if it meant American owned ships having to pay American wages to their staff & crew - if so cruise the industry would cease to function), I am basing my comments entirely on Victoria's track record of accomplishing anything in regards to enhancing its waterfront. I have lived here close to 40 years and perhaps with the exception of the removal of the Undersea Gardens from the Inner Harbour, there is scant difference in the look of anything from the Johnson Street Bridge to Clover Point in all of that time (private waterfront development notwithstanding). When it comes to the waterside public realm we have been stagnating for decades and I just don't see this as changing.

I agree, I have lived here for almost 30 years, and there have been many proposals that have come and gone. Proposals for wharf st have been varied but would have brought some life to the inner harbour. We were close at getting a streetcar line between Chinatown and James Bay, but that was killed by politics and the business association. Our museum hasn't changed, we have lost several tourist draws, and nothing to replace them. I think it's the old guard that refuses to make important changes. I jokingly say that there is a conspiracy to turn Victoria into large old folks home.

[johnk]

Ogden Point is perfect for the Maritime Museum. Many cruise ship passengers might prefer it over yet another jaunt to trinket and t-shirt shops that exist everywhere.

[Nparker]

... I jokingly say that there is a conspiracy to turn Victoria into large old folks home.

 

I know you are saying that tongue-in-cheek, but I don't think it's much of a stretch to suggest there is a certain faction in the city (including at least one person on council) who would happily turn Victoria into some sort of museum where NOTHING ever changed.

[todd]

Haha so true especially when it comes to billing itself as a cruise designation instead of a Jones act requirement which it is if the Jones act is evey recinded the only cruise ships victoria will see are the ones in the brochures in the malls at travel agencies

 

US Senator John McCain is working very hard to remove the Jones act entirely. I would like to think Victoria has more to offer the cruise ship industry than just the Jones act.

[Nparker]

US Senator John McCain is working very hard to remove the Jones act entirely. I would like to think Victoria has more to offer the cruise ship industry than just the Jones act.

 

With any luck John McCain and a host of other well-past-their-prime Republican senators will find themselves out of a job come November.

[todd]

I hope a redesigned Ogden - downtown gondola project is proposed someday, the biggest problem with the cruise ship terminal is its location most cruise ship terminals are located directly in the city center.

[UrbanRail]

I hope a redesigned Ogden - downtown gondola project is proposed someday, the biggest problem with the cruise ship terminal is its location most cruise ship terminals are located directly in the city center.

True, but those cities you speak of have large deep water ports that can handle large ships, ours can't, which is why an efficient way of getting people between Ogden Pt and downtown Victoria is needed, whether that is electric buses or trams.

[UrbanRail]

This development could become a "white elephant" if the The Passengers Vessel Services Act is ever repealed, and cruise ships are no longer required to stop here.
https://en.wikipedia...ces_Act_of_1886

It would suck, which is why we need to look at other alternatives, when it comes to marine transport at Ogden Pt. As I said in another post, look at having fast catamarans or a clipper type service based at Ogden Pt.

[UrbanRail]

i did an aerial schematic of one of my ideas and I will try to upload it.

Edited by UrbanRail, 13 February 2016 - 07:12 PM.

[todd]

They now have a boat to bring people Ogden - downtown which is great a big step forward. But Cruise ship folk have just come off a boat they don't want to go on to another boat just to get to the city center they don't want to go on any transportation to get to the city center, gondolas aren't just transportation their entertainment their cool their fun.

[LJ]

todd, on 13 Feb 2016 - 7:52 PM, said:

I hope a redesigned Ogden - downtown gondola project is proposed someday, the biggest problem with the cruise ship terminal is its location most cruise ship terminals are located directly in the city center.

If you want to keep believing that don't ever cruise out of Los Angeles, or for that matter Rome. You're miles from anywhere.

[Nparker]

...the biggest problem with the cruise ship terminal is its location most cruise ship terminals are located directly in the city center.

 

Seriously? I have been to a good number of cruise ships ports in my time and many of them are a lot further from the heart of the city/town/village than Ogden Point is from the Inner Harbour. Try arriving in LA by cruise ship and see where you can walk to from there.

 

Edit: sorry LJ I didn't see your post before I added mine.

Edited by Nparker, 13 February 2016 - 07:49 PM.

[HB]

With any luck John McCain and a host of other well-past-their-prime Republican senators will find themselves out of a job come November.

 Cruise lines are in it to make money.. the Seattle ships are teh majority of teh ones that stop here.They  pay the Victoria Harbour Authority $10 per head on every head on the ship plus many other fees are not money makers. the ship only come here because they are forced to stop in Canada.

Victoriia is not a super cruise destination bu the ship do minimal marketing for Victoria ,. the majority of the marketing is directed at the Alaska destinations

Edited by HB, 13 February 2016 - 08:41 PM.

[todd]

^Too much tequila or too little?