1899 replies to this topic

[Rob Randall]

Lake Tahoe, Palm Springs. Miami Beach, Manhattan all seem to do fine.

 

For the first two cities they import guest workers and have people sleeping in tents or in parking lots. Miami Beach hotel workers get up before dawn to prepare for the long commute into downtown. 

Edited by Rob Randall, 10 May 2018 - 12:49 PM.

[FirstTimeHomeCrier]

Lake Tahoe, Palm Springs. Miami Beach, Manhattan all seem to do fine.

 

All of those cities offer affordable housing options for low-income families, and all are far from utopias. I wouldn't consider them to be operating fine without low income workers.

[FirstTimeHomeCrier]

Sorry but as the point has been made many times, when comparing the downtown cores of most cities in the world, Victoria rental rates are still far below average. The difference is that most people in others cities don't have the same expectations as tenants seem to have here.

 

It appears as though the feds are going to spend their share of $90M to fund 1,000 affordable units in Victoria. Will last 6 months as a raft of new homeless people move here to occupy the shelter rate units. The headline says that we will end homelessness with the move though!

 

http://www.timescolo...-crd-1.23298248

 

The data I've been presenting is for the entire capital region (that includes places like Sooke and the Peninsula), not just for the downtown core. As I have said, there is not a single region in BC that offers affordable housing for the lowest quartile of income earners.

 

If you have any evidence that tenants in Victoria have higher demand than those elsewhere, please enlighten me.

 

I keep supplying evidence that there is a serious crisis in affordability, but all I hear back is opinion and anecdote.

[spanky123]

The data I've been presenting is for the entire capital region (that includes places like Sooke and the Peninsula), not just for the downtown core. As I have said, there is not a single region in BC that offers affordable housing for the lowest quartile of income earners.

 

If you have any evidence that tenants in Victoria have higher demand than those elsewhere, please enlighten me.

 

I keep supplying evidence that there is a serious crisis in affordability, but all I hear back is opinion and anecdote.

 

Sorry but when present "research" that shows that there is not a single town or city in Canada that is "affordable" then the quality of the source needs to be challenged. Heck it even shows PEI, where you can buy a house for $50K, as being as unaffordable as Victoria!

Edited by spanky123, 10 May 2018 - 12:59 PM.

[Casual Kev]

Lake Tahoe, Palm Springs. Miami Beach, Manhattan all seem to do fine.

 

Again, why do people keep comparing Victoria with either exclusive resort towns or mega cities? Those are ridiculous benchmarks. The CRD barely has more people than the Fraser Valley, and it has things other than snowless winters going on. 

 

Also, what individuals should do in the face of current reality is not the same as discussing potential solutions to the issue. I sure as hell wouldn't recommend any low-wage worker to move to Victoria, or even average ones, without being abnormally frugal and arranging a stable job beforehand. That doesn't mean looking at current affordability issues and assuming there's no other way, specially when part of the problem is people going out of their way to kill development. It's not like taxpayers need to get bent over by wannabe commies to improve the situation. 

[VicHockeyFan]

All of those cities offer affordable housing options for low-income families

 

So do we, we have thousands and thousands and thousands of units that are subsidized and rents tied to income. 

[FirstTimeHomeCrier]

Sorry but when present "research" that shows that there is not a single town or city in Canada that is "affordable" then the quality of the source needs to be challenged. Heck it even shows PEI, where you can buy a house for $50K, as being as unaffordable as Victoria!

 

I did not say that there was no town or city in Canada that is affordable. I said there is not a single region in British Columbia that has affordable rental housing for the lowest quartile of income earners.

 

The data comes from the 2015 long form census. You can read some FAQs about how the data works here. You can disagree with the 30% baseline if you want. But the actual fact is that an average studio apartment across the entire capital region costs around 56% of before-tax income for the lowest quartile of income earners. Even if we do push the baseline up higher, it's still unaffordable.

 

Note that this conversation is strictly about rental costs. Being able to buy a house for $50k does not necessarily mean rents are reasonable.

[Mike K.]

The home ownership ratio is 32% because it doesn’t factor in a plethora of costs home owners incur, and the risks involved in home ownership. Renters have no responsibility beyond their utilities and tenant insurance.

[spanky123]

I did not say that there was no town or city in Canada that is affordable. I said there is not a single region in British Columbia that has affordable rental housing for the lowest quartile of income earners.

 

The data comes from the 2015 long form census. You can read some FAQs about how the data works here. You can disagree with the 30% baseline if you want. But the actual fact is that an average studio apartment across the entire capital region costs around 56% of before-tax income for the lowest quartile of income earners. Even if we do push the baseline up higher, it's still unaffordable.

 

Note that this conversation is strictly about rental costs. Being able to buy a house for $50k does not necessarily mean rents are reasonable.

 

I was just referring to the link you provided. It clearly shows that every populated centre in Canada is 'unaffordable'. Clearly the 30% threshold is not applicable or their data is screwy.

[tjv]

These low income people may have to consider moving to Duncan or Chemainus and commute.  In many major centres people commute well over 1 hour to their job.  In NYC 2 hours each way are common.  Daily commuter transit runs from Duncan now for the people who can't afford to live here

 

If you want to live here and buy be prepared to commute long distances.  This area has the best climate in all of Canada and people are coming here with buckets of money.  If you don't have the cash, well get out and make way for people with money.  Shut up or move out.  

 

Like it or not Victoria is a destination regularly focused in travel magazines.  People buy $10 million homes and demolish them.  One guy 2 years ago built a 15,000 sf mansion in Central Saanich and was starting plumbing and electrical rough ins, didn't like it and immediately had it torn down to restart (yes and I mean flattened, foundation removed, gone!).  These sort of things only happen in expensive real estate markets like LA, NYC, etc

[Casual Kev]

These low income people may have to consider moving to Duncan or Chemainus and commute.  In many major centres people commute well over 1 hour to their job.  In NYC 2 hours each way are common.  Daily commuter transit runs from Duncan now for the people who can't afford to live here

 

If you want to live here and buy be prepared to commute long distances.  This area has the best climate in all of Canada and people are coming here with buckets of money.  If you don't have the cash, well get out and make way for people with money.  Shut up or move out.  

 

Like it or not Victoria is a destination regularly focused in travel magazines.  People buy $10 million homes and demolish them.  One guy 2 years ago built a 15,000 sf mansion in Central Saanich and was starting plumbing and electrical rough ins, didn't like it and immediately had it torn down to restart (yes and I mean flattened, foundation removed, gone!).  These sort of things only happen in expensive real estate markets like LA, NYC, etc

 

Again, I think in this thread there's a lot of mix-up between "what you should tell someone struggling to afford Victoria" and "what we should do about affordability in Victoria". Unless you sincerely believe the powers-to-be can do absolutely nothing except tell people to sprawl and commute massive distances as if the CRD had 10 million people.

Edited by Casual Kev, 10 May 2018 - 06:15 PM.

[VicHockeyFan]

I’ve told folks here a million times, I can build $700/mo. places but Government and politicians must step back.

I’m not so sure I can help if you are a single father of three with rudimentary job skills.

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 10 May 2018 - 06:36 PM.

[LJ]

Actually, if you check out the link I shared yesterday, there's not a region in the entire province of BC that is affordable for the lowest quartile of income earners (in the capital region, that's $0 to $23,536 annually). For the second lowest quartile ($23,536 to $44,456 annually), you have to go all the way to the Port McNeill area to find affordable housing. Do you think your baristas should be flying in from Saskatchewan each morning?

The lowest quartile will have to bunk in with somebody or commute. I don't have a barista, I can make my own coffee just fine. If baristas are in the lowest quartile it must really piss them off to be making coffee that they can't afford.

[spanky123]

The lowest quartile will have to bunk in with somebody or commute. I don't have a barista, I can make my own coffee just fine. If baristas are in the lowest quartile it must really piss them off to be making coffee that they can't afford.

 

If Amazon and Google have their way, coffee will be making itself in 5 years.

[LJ]

If Amazon and Google have their way, coffee will be making itself in 5 years.

So then those lowest quartile baristas just move into the welfare rate room, stepping down from their below market rental unit.

You know I don't even get a thank-you card for helping to pay these peoples rent. Shameful. Maybe I can get an apology from Trudeau, or even just a "sorry."

[spanky123]

Oh God damn it, ENOUGH WITH BIG GOVERNMENT AND EMPIRE BUILDING.  The City is basically turning into the enforcement arm of the Residential Tenancy Branch with this hare-brained scheme.  Maybe instead of doing this, they use these resources to fix a pothole or 2,452.

 

http://www.timescolo...ents-1.23295929

 

Here's an idea in light of yesterday's funding announcement, pass a bylaw which makes it unaffordable for the owners of existing rental accommodations to own their buildings and then they will be forced to sell them to BC housing at a discount to what they are worth! Problem solved, we will now have lots of units for the homeless.

[spanky123]

So then those lowest quartile baristas just move into the welfare rate room, stepping down from their below market rental unit.

You know I don't even get a thank-you card for helping to pay these peoples rent. Shameful. Maybe I can get an apology from Trudeau, or even just a "sorry."

 

I would hope that the lowest quartile baristas figure out that they need to work at a job that has a higher value to society (ie pays more). 

[sdwright.vic]

Or get a sugar daddy/ mama. Get those old folk to support and keep you while your still young and pretty/handsome!

[tjv]

I’ve told folks here a million times, I can build $700/mo. places but Government and politicians must step back.

I’m not so sure I can help if you are a single father of three with rudimentary job skills.

I would be interested to hear how you have build, rent and profit at $700/month.  In my mind it has to be one room, less than 100 sf with a murphy bed, fold up dining table with a one element hot plate type with a bar fridge below.  Showers and bathrooms must be down the hall.  Occupancy limit of 2 and its going to be cozy.  Even at those numbers its doubtful you could make it work for $700/month.

 

Only other option is stackable cages:  http://www.dailymail...it-hutches.html

[Awaiting Juno]

Income measures can be deceptive - and sometimes there's a big difference between reported income and actual income.  There are plenty of "low income" people that do not worry about rental costs, specifically, those who are still supported by their parents and are planning on being low income/high cost for a few years while they complete their educations.  There are also seniors who may have low income, but hold sizeable assets - again not really a group who is overly concerned about affordability.  Further there may be new arrivals, who again are living off of savings until their permits to work and residency is granted.  For some segments of the population having a room mate or 3 is absolutely fine and expected.  Others might be "temporarily low-income" while they raise young children and are supported by a much higher earning spouse.  

 

Even the rental rate measures can be deceptive - if all that is counted are one and two bedroom standard apartments then this might not reflect the actual rental rates faced by people in the lowest income quartile.  If you surveyed people and asked what they actually paid for accommodation versus their income and asked about their savings/assets - we might discover the affordability problem isn't as it has been made out to be.  

 

I'm not saying that there isn't a problem - I'm saying that the degree of the problem faced might well be over-stated.