59 replies to this topic

[martini]

Remember the daffodil farm that offered $10 an hour, shelter, transportation, food to some of our street denizens and was turned down flat.

Could you please elaborate on these stats?
Who is some?
Do these individuals now paint a broad brush of all homeless?
If this perception has simply been taken from a 20 second A-Channel sound bite, let it be put to rest.

[Sue Woods]

Could you please elaborate on these stats?
Who is some?
Do these individuals now paint a broad brush of all homeless?
If this perception has simply been taken from a 20 second A-Channel sound bite, let it be put to rest.

It was a full news story a year ago I think. The daffodil farmer went through downtown offering people (don't have the numbers) $10 an hour, a free place to stay with meals, and transportation to and from the farm. He found no takers and had to leave crops un-picked as a result.

He was not on a mission to paint the homeless one way or the other -just a local employer surprised that he could not find any of those he approached being open to his offer.

[ted - 3 - dots]

It was a full news story a year ago I think. The daffodil farmer went through downtown offering people (don't have the numbers) $10 an hour, a free place to stay with meals, and transportation to and from the farm. He found no takers and had to leave crops un-picked as a result.

He was not on a mission to paint the homeless one way or the other -just a local employer surprised that he could not find any of those he approached being open to his offer.

---------- Too bad I'm disabled -----------

I like hard work ... I mean , how do you think I became disabled ...?
( not that the WCB , paid the work related injuries ) THEY DID NOT ...!!!!!!!!!!

The 2-company's that I owned failed ( no labour )

today I woke-up at 4am ( too much pain can't sleep )

--------- sorry but , The "News-Story" above is faulse -------

My brother and 4 of his kids when to work on that farm ...
( My mom got flowers 3 times a week from that labour )

I recall the story very well ...

My neice told me about some Mexican-workers working here on a visa. She leaned how to do streaching exercise's before working .... They also taught her "How-To-Pick" and avoid back injuries...!

--------- Bottom line ---------

The Farmer didn't get all of the labour he needed ...!

But then again , did he ever ...? Simply no ...
he's been around for years , so what is happening there ...?????

Canada-Employment Services , EI , U-Vic student employment services , Camosun College , ect all have people looking for quick work & a cheep buck or two ,,,?
( ie: they are looking for jobs that last a week or two )

Simply , as a business owner who offered back-breaking-Labour-jobs ,
I never took on "more work" , than what I knew I could do myself ...!

at times , I sold pre-manufactured garadge-packages...
( we'd build the walls etc on site , and leave the homeowner to assemble it them selves )

people had to wait 30-60 days for us to show up ....!!!!!! ( very very busy )


ted.... ( there is more to the story , OTHER THAN a shot at the homeless people )

Ps , I never hired a friend of mine , nor would I bother to hire somebody who is UN-FIT for the hard work I offered ...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

food for thought , when/if your trying to hire lammer's ....!

;{-


WCB ...? I needed to earn some money 6-years ago .
I fell off a roof , and re-injured my back ..........

NO wcb coverage because I aggorvated a PER-EXHISTING CONDITION ...!
( dispite the fact that I prepaid them for my earnings )

>>> it's your turn to break your back <<< come on

.

[Coreyburger]

I remember this. Talking to other people, I have been told that a fair number of homeless people are wary of these sorts of offers, as they have been taken advantage of in the past. They are well aware that if it is their word against somebody who has had a bath that morning, they are going to lose.

[Chris J]

My take on that is that perhaps some people need to start to consider that being homeless is about more than just not having a job.
What about the people who can't work?
I also happen to know people who have worked on that farm. It's irrelevant to this conversation (given that poor folks are just suppossed to shut up and take whatever work is offered to them) but it's a highly repetitive job, their wrists are useless by 3pm each day and it's no wonder the farmer had to go soliciting homeless people to work there. He has a huge turnover.
But really, whatthe point is here is that some people don't understand why some homeless people (or some people on welfare or disability) don't just suck it up and join the workforce.
I've given up trying to debate this one.
It seems to be one of those places where we agree to disagree.

[martini]

It was a full news story a year ago I think. The daffodil farmer went through downtown offering people (don't have the numbers) $10 an hour, a free place to stay with meals, and transportation to and from the farm. He found no takers and had to leave crops un-picked as a result.

He was not on a mission to paint the homeless one way or the other -just a local employer surprised that he could not find any of those he approached being open to his offer.

This is my point. None of us know who was asked, nor how the media chose to edit the story. I've really grown weary of how many times I've heard this particular blip to paint the population downtown. It does no one any good in discussing the issue at large. IMO
Now we're blaming the homeless for his unpicked crops?

[martini]

50 ways to help the homeless:
http://thetyee.ca/Vi...9/HelpHomeless/

14.) Provide meals. At the end of a pilot project in which meals were delivered daily throughout one Downtown Eastside residential hotel, residents reported using fewer drugs -- and most had gained weight.

[Sue Woods]

I remember this. Talking to other people, I have been told that a fair number of homeless people are wary of these sorts of offers, as they have been taken advantage of in the past. They are well aware that if it is their word against somebody who has had a bath that morning, they are going to lose.

I had not considered the point about the homeless being taken advantage of by certain people approaching them with offers. The reporter should have included that. It makes sense - and I'm not lamenting unpicked flowers in exchange for their right to say no. I was providing info about a news story at someone's request.

[LJ]

Now we're blaming the homeless for his unpicked crops?

No - we are demonstrating that some people who are able to work would rather sit on their ass in some doorway and beg for money rather then do an honest days work.

Hence a lot of the general public who do happen to work each day to put food on the table for their family have a less than favourable view of these bums!

Count me among them.

[LJ]

None of us know who was asked, nor how the media chose to edit the story.

We certainly know who was asked - everyone!

There were posters, billboards,advertisements etc. etc. asking for workers.

Who the proprietor asked personally - don't know, doesn't really matter as no one showed up.

Who the media showed - several, all with the same response, and by virtue of the fact that not one of them or any others showed up, the responses the media chose to broadcast were obviously representative of all they did interview.

[Sue Woods]

We certainly know who was asked - everyone!

There were posters, billboards,advertisements etc. etc. asking for workers.

That's how I remember it as well. It was a real job - highly publicized that week.

Originally Posted by Coreyburger
I remember this. Talking to other people, I have been told that a fair number of homeless people are wary of these sorts of offers, as they have been taken advantage of in the past. They are well aware that if it is their word against somebody who has had a bath that morning, they are going to lose.

Offers - meaning work for wages?

Well that would have been one job (and place to stay/eat) where the media would have been very interested - as would the authorities - if a homeless worker was left unpaid or abused in any shape or form. In fact, it would have made the same headlines as the story about those begging on the street refusing work.

[Sue Woods]

it's a highly repetitive job, their wrists are useless by 3pm each day and it's no wonder the farmer had to go soliciting homeless people to work there. He has a huge turnover.

But the homeless activists want to turn all city parks into giant vegetable gardens! Who would harvest their crops?

[martini]

Well it seems pointless to even discuss the homeless issue anymore.
It's obvious they are all a lazy bunch, defined by the fact none of them are willing to pick daffodils. End of story.

[Sue Woods]

Well it seems pointless to even discuss the homeless issue anymore.
It's obvious they are all a lazy bunch, defined by the fact none of them are willing to pick daffodils. End of story.

I think everyone wants to see more action - less talk - and when jobs are offered with accomodation I think most people would expect action by at least a FEW of the people we see downtown. Obviously not all homeless are capable of farm work. Its the others we refer to. They do exist.

Why is holding those to account so wrong?

[martini]

I think everyone wants to see more action - less talk - and when jobs are offered with accomodation I think most people would expect action by at least a FEW of the people we see downtown. Obviously not all homeless are capable of farm work. Its the others we refer to. They do exist.

Why is holding those to account so wrong?

Holding who? You can't paint every person with the same brush. This is what I see happening. That's what's wrong.
I don't deny there's a percentage who live on the street by choice, and who have no intention of reaching out for a hand up.
But it seems that sector has stereotyped the entire population in the public's eye.
For myself, I cannot judge anyone in any situation. What right do I have to do that? By what armchair knowledge do I point a finger and say "Just get a job".

I think our expectations are skewed. We expect damaged individuals to be capable of functioning 100% they way we do everyday. That doesn't make sense.
Until you know who you are dealing with eye to eye, we cannot begin the healing process.

[Sue Woods]

But it seems that sector has stereotyped the entire population in the public's eye.
For myself, I cannot judge anyone in any situation. What right do I have to do that? By what armchair knowledge do I point a finger and say "Just get a job".

I see your points, and you're right.
Thx.

[mat]

I think everyone wants to see more action - less talk - and when jobs are offered with accomodation I think most people would expect action by at least a FEW of the people we see downtown. Obviously not all homeless are capable of farm work. Its the others we refer to. They do exist.

Why is holding those to account so wrong?

The obvious question would be 'holding whom to account'? Are there some homeless who can work, but refuse? - likely yes. Are there homeless who with adequate addiction treatment and counseling could eventually enter the work force? - even more likely. Are there homeless who are working? - too many to count.

You mentioned quite eloquently in previous posts lamenting the closure of dedicated hospitals and residential treatment centres in favour of community treatment; we are witnessing the failure of that policy (the UK is another prime example). The other issue of course is the poverty line. We have a minimum wage, which even at full time work, only comes to 2/3rds the base poverty income as stated in Federal Stats. (Family of 3 needs $36.000)

So, two steps to really help the dire homeless and addicted, open residential treatment centres and raise the minimum wage to a realistic level.

[North Shore]

We have a minimum wage, which even at full time work, only comes to 2/3rds the base poverty income as stated in Federal Stats. (Family of 3 needs $36.000)

Mat, where do you find those numbers, please? Google isn't my friend in this matter.

ps. no baby yet - thankfully, considering the weather!

[mat]

Mat, where do you find those numbers, please? Google isn't my friend in this matter.

ps. no baby yet - thankfully, considering the weather!

Just to note to all - North Shore's wife is due to deliver anytime. In my limited capacity as a mod, congratulations from everyone when it happens, and we hope it goes smoothly. If you get stuck in the snow I am sure someone on VV has a 4WD!

The $36.000 poverty line mark was from a CBC Van radio interview - for a family of 3. It accounted for rental, food, transport (no car), and the fact the mother stayed home as childcare costs are out-of-sight, so only one main earner.

[Ginger Snap]

I don't get it. What does an idea being original have to do with whether it works or not?
Faith has nothing to do with my critique of an idea.
Just trying? 'Just' isn't good enough for me. I want to know many things about an idea implemented into a plan. Were recipients queried? Do we know this is what they want? How did this format come to fruition?
I do not accept anything simply because...without questioning. To do so is complacent.
To ask questions is how we find answers.
I won't buy them, not because I don't like it...because I want to truly help.

And I will not be shamed or guilted to please the status quo.

I am not trying to guilt or shame you into anything. I am just tired of people complaining there is not enough action on helping the homeless, and then criticizing when someone actually tries to do something to help the homeless.

According to your concerns above, we need to study the problem further before trying to provide any possible solutions? What if I want to collect gloves for the street population this Christmas... should I be criticized because I didn't query the homeless to see if they would prefer socks instead? Is it a useless idea because I didnt show my work?

I get frustrated when people seem to just prefer to complain about a problem rather than try *anything*