75 replies to this topic

[Sue Woods]

Council wrestles with giving itself benefit package
Thursday meeting to discuss merits, approve pay hike
By Bill CleverleyDecember 13, 2008

The sticky issue of elected officials giving themselves a raise just got murkier in Victoria, where rookie Coun. Philippe Lucas wants councillors to be eligible for the city's extended medical and dental benefits. Some eyebrows were raised around the council table this week when Lucas broached the issue of signing up councillors for the extended benefit package. "I think there was a noticeable gasp in the room. I think it's the youthful exuberance of a new councillor," said Coun. Chris Coleman.

Coleman said he finds it unfortunate that "in the midst of an economic downturn" one of the first issues council has to face is a recommendation to give themselves a raise. "It's because we screwed up and didn't finish it off in the last council and it's going to cause us some distress, because I know some of us are saying the principled position is that you should never vote on your own wage packet."

But Lucas said it's exactly because the issue of council remuneration is on the agenda that he brought the issue up at this time. "I thought if there was any time to explore this at all it would probably be in the coming week," he said.

Under a bylaw slated for final reading Thursday, Mayor Dean Fortin's salary increases to $97,760, up from the $74,458 former mayor Alan Lowe was paid. Councillor salaries increase to $39,104 from $26,085 effective Jan. 1.
The increases appear larger than they really are as they reflect a 2007 council decision to eliminate the one-third tax-free provision councillors and the mayor previously received. The increases were recommended by an independent committee and were to have been approved by the previous council before this one was sworn in. But it didn't work out that way, and final approval now comes on Thursday.

A new father of a 10-week-old baby girl, Lucas acknowledged a benefit package is available to local elected officials through the Union of B.C. Municipalities, but said it's expensive and not as good as the city employee package. "I thought for the sake of pay equity it would make sense for the city to look at medical and dental benefits for councillors. It's not part of our current package and, of course, literally every other employee at city hall has that option, so I thought it would be something good for the city to look at," Lucas said. "Maybe it came to my notice [because] as a new parent the importance of these things are dawning on me."

As well as being a councillor, Lucas works two other part-time jobs, but his income from council is his primary income. His wife, currently on maternity leave, also holds three part-time jobs, he said.

"It's certainly not that we're sitting at home waiting for the benefits to rain in. Both of us are really hard-working, but we find that even with our total of six jobs right now we don't have health and extended health coverage and with a new baby that's something that's come to our purview," he said.

Coun. Geoff Young is not in favour of eliminating the tax-free allowance. While council decided to remove the tax-free portion in an effort to be more transparent, Young argues it saddles local taxpayers with more of the salary burden.

Young said in the past, benefit packages for councillors haven't been an issue because it's been considered a part-time job and councillors would have other employment. "In Victoria it's approaching [full time] for some people, and I guess if you follow that logic you would think in terms of employment benefits. I guess I still tend to think of it as a part-time job, and in that case benefits aren't really appropriate. Certainly that's been the philosophy with regard to pensions. It's been assumed that people would have something else and make some other arrangement," Young said. He also noted that an 11 per cent increase in lieu of benefits had been taken into account in setting the new council salaries.

Lucas' running mate Coun. Sonya Chandler supports the idea of council receiving health and dental. "In order to have your council working at its full capacity you have to ensure their health and wellness is supported," said Chandler. "I think it just makes sense that on council we have the same access to the same package that staff has."

Veteran Coun. Pam Madoff pays for her benefits through the UBCM but says it's expensive -- more than $200 a month for herself and one dependent. She said she likes how Lucas framed the issue as a health and well-being issue as opposed to a salary issue.

Fortin, meanwhile, said he's happy with the decision council reached on remuneration and noted that council actually had reduced the committee's recommended remuneration.
bcleverley@tc.canwest.com
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Is there any public resistance to this? As I personally think there ought to be.

First order of business for this new council - a pay increase. Second - taxpayers being expected to take care of Lucas and Chandlers and Madoff's health and well being. I suggest that is their private business, not pubic business, to deal with. Assuming they had the available time and good health with which to serve the public when they ran for council.
Seems the height of self-serving when there are serious community issues to deal with at the council table. Sue

[jklymak]

^ If you want to attract good people to the job you need to give them good pay and benefits. Why should a council member get worse benefits than other city employees?

[Ginger Snap]

^ If you want to attract good people to the job you need to give them good pay and benefits. Why should a council member get worse benefits than other city employees?

Just want to make a small clarification here. Councils are not city employees, or staff. They are elected officials.

[Sue Woods]

Just want to make a small clarification here. Councils are not city employees, or staff. They are elected officials.

This is why I think we need a two or three term limit - council service was not intended to be a full time (and lifelong) career.

But it's already starting to resemble a sheltered workshop with such motions being tabled two weeks in by a first term councillor - because as history shows 95% of the time, once a member of council always a member of council until you choose to retire.

[jklymak]

...council service was not intended to be a full time (and lifelong) career.

Its not? Why not?

[Sue Woods]

You get hired for a job through an interview with an employer based on having the right skills etc. It's assumed you'll stay for awhile and you trade your expertise/time for a paycheck with med benefits, retirement plans, and annual wage increases.

You run for elected office to give back to your community for a set term (three years) - as a resident who lives/works/or runs a business in the community. Trading your time to guide decisions that benefit your city. You are elected - not hired.

It is a slippery slope for any politician to seek to augment their positions of power beyond a fair wage (to which they are entitled and do receive) with medical or any other benefits that have never existed before for a city councillor.

In the broadcast world we are not allowed to accept benefits or gifts of any kind so we can remain neutral. The same applies to politicians at all levels. Otherwise, for a politician to state they are in need of something special due to personal needs (such as Lucas having a new baby and wanting cheaper medical care for his family) could signal that in exchange for above and beyond benefits or goods - elected members of any governing body may be vulnerable to 'persuasion'.

[mat]

Ms Woods, in many ways your position on benefits to 'elected' or volunteer positions is credible as there should be no direct, or underhand, benefit to the position. In democratic societies we tend to the poetic sense of duty, to return to the community what we have gained; to provide a certain expertise as a benefit to the whole.

In other threads on VV the debate is ongoing about public sector salaries, and compared to council/mayoral compensation it is night and day. In Vancouver the City Manager (recently resigned) was receiving $300 000, and similar disparities are seen locally. Should a council member get a CEO based salary as per a shareholder company? The position is the same. In the private business model it is the board members who get the big bucks, and the VPs (managers) who are paid well, but below that position.

Benefits - to this you need to look more at volunteer rescue or police positions. Coast Guard Auxiliary is a prime example. All boat crew and coxswains have done 100's of hours of training, with no pay, and at any moment could be (and have been recently) in life threatening situations. Yes - they and their families should be covered by the best extended and life insurance, plus legal in the event of a law suit. The same should apply to elected municipal officials.

We tend to undermine council positions with the low salary, and at the same time hold them to a higher standard against potential graft. The only way to counteract that is with a salary that actually relates to the job.

[ted - 3 - dots]

In the broadcast world we are not allowed to accept benefits or gifts of any kind so we can remain neutral. The same applies to politicians at all levels. Otherwise, for a politician to state they are in need of something special due to personal needs (such as Lucas having a new baby and wanting cheaper medical care for his family) could signal that in exchange for above and beyond benefits or goods - elected members of any governing body may be vulnerable to 'persuasion'.

------ so that deck I built , doesn't get me the a job as building inspector ...? ----

good thing it didn't snow today ,
I was going to shovel a drive-way or two ...! ( looking for a job as asistant city-mgr. )

simply , I guess those greezy half-baked dough-nut balls ,
aren't going to get me a job as health inspector either ...!


ted... ( I don't want to mention the dog-**** deal...! )


it was stupid of me to think that a BRIBE would get me the FRIENDS that I need ...?

;{-

.
.
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how do I become a "dog-catcher" ...?

[Sue Woods]

^ I do have to agree with you that some salaries are over the top - and some far below fair.

Re council - I do happen to think $39,000 is a fair wage for the job.

[yodsaker]

This shows the councillor's utter naivete and dismal sense of timing. Not a good omen for the start of his political career.
There are actually issues to be tackled and the "health and wellness" of politicians and their families is not top of the list for most people, many of whom don't have dental plans either.

[Holden West]

With President Bush and Sarah Palin off the scene, we need not fret for lack of amusing behaviour in our Capital City with our fresh batch of three rookie politicians giving us plenty of comedic fodder. I for one am anticipating three glorious years of audacious pontifications, gaffes and knee-slappers.

[Sue Woods]

should be covered by the best extended and life insurance, plus legal in the event of a law suit. The same should apply to elected municipal officials.

Civic councillors already have medical and dental coverage as members of the Union of BC Municipalities.

[jklymak]

In the broadcast world we are not allowed to accept benefits or gifts of any kind so we can remain neutral. The same applies to politicians at all levels. Otherwise, for a politician to state they are in need of something special due to personal needs (such as Lucas having a new baby and wanting cheaper medical care for his family) could signal that in exchange for above and beyond benefits or goods - elected members of any governing body may be vulnerable to 'persuasion'.

I don't get your analogy. Broadcast workers ask their employers for better wages and benefits all the time. I seem to remember the CBC was on strike for quite a while a few years ago. Do you think they should not have done that because they might have been "signalling" that they were willing to accept bribes?

If anything, I think under compensating councillors is more likely to cause corruption, or lead to a council that is only composed of the very wealthy.

So I am looking forward to hearing about how our elected reps are going to deal with that issue right in their backyard instead of debating a cheaper dental plan for themselves.

Surely these aren't mutually exclusive....

[Sue Woods]

I don't get your analogy. Broadcast workers ask their employers for better wages and benefits all the time. ...

Yes, true, what I mean is that they cannot seek benefit from "outside" sources like trips/meals/or a special deal on med benefits for personal gain.

Politicians (covered by the UBCM plan) should not be seeking med coverage under a union-negociated staff medical plan because they are not city employees.

[yodsaker]

Maybe Councillor Lucas could look into dental plans for the muggers and crackheads.
Might be a productive use of his energy.

[mat]

At night I think it is especially wise to walk in a group based on my first hand knowledge of at least a dozen people who have been swarmed over the past few years while alone or in pairs. As a result I helped both my kids buy cars so they would not have to be waiting at bus stops after dark.


(Ps I think we are on the wrong thread. My fault - I started it)

Yes we are on the wrong thread, you are not to blame - slap me sideways for continuing off topic. I will leave it to Caramia to either find an existing thread, or create something new -

[Ginger Snap]

Politicians (covered by the UBCM plan) should not be seeking med coverage under a union-negociated staff medical plan because they are not city employees.

True, and they aren't union either.

[spanky123]

Maybe something like the UVIC (and other campuses) plan of dedicated or volunteer security walkers to get concert goers from the venue to cars might be an idea - although with potentially hundreds of people heading out at one time that would be problematic.

It is called the "Guardian Angels". They came to Victoria to look but were told by our "leaders" that they were not needed.

[Coreyburger]

I would also note that pay raises were essentially dumped on this council by the previous one. And yes, some of the members of this council are the same, but a bunch aren't.

[Sue Woods]

self edit - Holden West said it better.