892 replies to this topic

[lanforod]

Vancouver is 9.7% proposed. 2022 turned out to be 5.7%.
Last year I think Saanich was 6.67%

[Ismo07]

Well they have two police forces for some reason.

 

https://bc.ctvnews.c...-soon-1.6283007

 

Transition is pricy...

[Victoria Watcher]

Near-final Saanich budget includes 7.1% property-tax increase

 

 

https://www.timescol...ncrease-6708099

 

 

Expected to be ratified April 18, it’s considered a “status quo” budget that will see spending increase by just over $10 million, due mainly to increased cost of labour.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If that's a status quo budget increase I'd hate to see their progressive one.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 16 March 2023 - 01:28 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

[GaryOak]

If that's a status quo budget increase I'd hate to see their progressive one.

Haven't seen too many "progressive" municipal governments raise taxes above inflation. But I can give you the example of a more conservative leadership that campaigned on lower tax but in the end decided to go for a 10% tax increases. And that government would be ABC in Vancouver.

[Mike K.]

Victoria has increased taxes 42% since 2012.

[sebberry]

I'm seeing chatter online about Councilor Caradona having suggested that homeowners take out a HELOC to pay for property taxes.  Can anyone confirm?

[Stephen James]

Haven't seen too many "progressive" municipal governments raise taxes above inflation. But I can give you the example of a more conservative leadership that campaigned on lower tax but in the end decided to go for a 10% tax increases. And that government would be ABC in Vancouver.

We've seen the City of Victoria do inflation +1% with no justification other than they like the number. Because I DO understand the magic of compounding, I believe this policy is infantile and cruel, and much worse than any one-time inflation + increase.

 

Like any failed self-manager who lives by "the work will fill the time available" our horrible, hopeless, incompetent and selfish council for the last 8 years, and counting, found "absolutely essential" needs for this money. The literal opposite of financial governance.

 

What these incompetents either refuse to acknowledge or, I suspect and so much worse, have no real understanding of, is the priorities are first, justified... then the funding. These selfish people instead, get the money first then find the spending.

 

Absolutely unconscionable. Any excuse that others are doing it just makes it worse because it means they don't really want to make anything better.

[Ismo07]

Victoria has increased taxes 42% since 2012.

 

Have you measured budget increases with other municipalities?  No property in Victoria has had their tax lifted by 42% in the last 10 years.

 

 

I'm seeing chatter online about Councilor Caradona having suggested that homeowners take out a HELOC to pay for property taxes.  Can anyone confirm?

 

Mentioned as one option...

 

 

What these incompetents either refuse to acknowledge or, I suspect and so much worse, have no real understanding of, is the priorities are first, justified... then the funding. These selfish people instead, get the money first then find the spending.

 

Absolutely unconscionable. Any excuse that others are doing it just makes it worse because it means they don't really want to make anything better.

 

It's not really how budgeting works.  Typically budgets come in (usually by summer of the previous year).  Then presentations to Council, then things get removed and added to get to a number.  Sometime it's with a fine tooth comb where staff would be there to justify some expenses or projects other times it's not as arduous.  One year an expense of just over $100k was questioned and asked about eliminating it.  The only way to have done that was to only accept coins for parking payments. So there are attempts to reduce property taxes...  Every Council does it in different ways and the process can even change year to year.  Budget increases will be high this year in every municipality due to the intense inflation we are seeing.  Paving roads for example is crazy expensive, I'm doing a small paving project in a parking facility and I can't believe the cost.  There is some complexity to it but still staggering.  Materials, staffing and most expenses have gone up a lot.

[Mike K.]

Have you measured budget increases with other municipalities?  No property in Victoria has had their tax lifted by 42% in the last 10 years.

 

So the 50% budget increase in Victoria since 2012 is not real, either, rising from $200 million in 2013 to $300 million in 2023?

 

You don't like these facts, I get it. But I can't change facts to suit just you.

[Victoria Watcher]

So the 50% budget increase in Victoria since 2012 is not real, either, rising from $200 million in 2013 to $300 million in 2023?

 

You don't like these facts, I get it. But I can't change facts to suit just you.

 

Maybe what Ismo means that as the budget has increased, so has the tax base.  So the budget # isn't directly reflected on your property, since there are more properties to tax now (ie. new condos).

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 16 March 2023 - 01:24 PM.

[Mike K.]

That's why taxes only increased 42%, while the budget itself increased 50%.

 

You'll note that Ismo only refutes, but never provides any evidence to support his opposing stance.

[Ismo07]

So the 50% budget increase in Victoria since 2012 is not real, either, rising from $200 million in 2013 to $300 million in 2023?

 

You don't like these facts, I get it. But I can't change facts to suit just you.

No the budget increase is true.  Just the property tax increase isn't the same.  Just find me one property that has increased in tax that much...

[Ismo07]

That's why taxes only increased 42%, while the budget itself increased 50%.

 

You'll note that Ismo only refutes, but never provides any evidence to support his opposing stance.

 

What proof would you like..  Give me your mom's address and I can see what her tax was in 2012 and what it was in 2022.  I have given you many examples of property that during that time that have increased around 17% to 24%...  You want actual evidence, like you think I'm lying?  I've explained it a few times but you just don't understand...

 

Let's try some hard examples if you wish..  I can't list specific addresses however.

Edited by Ismo07, 16 March 2023 - 01:42 PM.

[Mike K.]

You want actual evidence...

 

 

Yes!

 

       

[Ismo07]

Yes!

 

       

Have to be a little compliant here.  You can do the math if you'd like

 

My condo - $1,789.61 in 2012; $2185.56 in 2022

Rando single fam in Fernwood - $2,717.61 in 2012; $3,668.08 in 2022

Rando single in James Bay - $4,404.14 in 2012; $5,454.40 in 2022

Rando Rental complex James Bay - $27,376.57 in 2012; 39,407.46 in 2022

Rando Commercial office building downtown - $220,115.22 in 2012; $234,870.45 - many commercial buildings didn't go up much for that 10 years.

 

I picked random addresses that have been around without huge changes, no cherry picking...  Now the value of these properties have increased more than your 40% over that time, maybe that what you meant.

Edited by Ismo07, 16 March 2023 - 02:23 PM.

[Mike K.]

Before we go any further, are those gross taxes or net taxes for the municipal component?

[Ismo07]

Before we go any further, are those gross taxes or net taxes for the municipal component?

 

That is what their property tax bill is before grants.  

[Mike K.]

That is what their property tax bill is before grants.

You have to split out the municipal portion from the entire tax bill. The City of Victoria does not control the other line items.

Run those numbers again for only the municipal portion, then compare those.

[Mike K.]

I feel like we had this conversation a week ago.