1299 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

And MIke, we certainly don't need an outside perspective to tell us the City of Victoria is insane in terms of its focus on ridiculous non-issues.

Of course we do, especially when that feedback is valid. We should value what our visitors opinions are of our city if we hope to remain a favoured tourist destination. And what those folks were saying was true, to an outsider looking in the Northern Junk fiasco was petty and amusing for people from elsewhere just like it's head-shakingly frustrating for locals who want to move on with things.

Although tech is the biggest industry, apparently, tech companies and their jobs can disappear as quickly as they appeared. Tourism, if managed right, will be around for generations.

Anyhow, I guess I should add that I've personally heard the snickers of many a tourist who rolled their eyes over the "olde England" nonsense. It's embarrassing for this region to be seen as such when clearly those who are traveled and come here with eyes wide open find that to be a ridiculous and tacky comparison.

I've dragged this out off topic now. We can continue this discussion in another thread if there is the appetite for it.

[VicHockeyFan]

A large load of windows is arriving on site this morning.

[Mike K.]

Sounds like you're planning a heist. Who's in?

[aastra]

The Pandora facade on the Union looks terrific and I can't tell you how glad I am that it's there. It makes me wonder yet again about what could have been done with the Eaton's centre (and a bunch of other sites, too). I have a feeling that this one on Yates will be less of a success and it might even end up looking faux/tacked-on when it's finished. But I still have my fingers crossed.

Edited by aastra, 25 March 2014 - 07:17 AM.

[jonny]

^ Yes the Union facade looks fantastic.

[Mike K.]

Everything about the Union's design/facade lends itself to accommodating a restored heritage facade and it works well in that instance.

Here we have a modern highrise with what looks like a tacked on facade. It's just weird is what it is, but as you say it might work out in the end. But again, at what cost is this gamble?

[jonny]

But again, at what cost is this gamble?

 

Excellent question.

 

Era is going to be about 125,000 sq. ft. if memory serves. At a cost of $200-250 per sq. ft. you're looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of $25-30M to construct this building.

 

So, if it cost $100k to save the facade, that's less than a rounding error in the project's budget to put things into perspective or about $0.80/sq. ft. added cost.

[Hotel Mike]

With the heritage building being the entrance to the breezeway or Milly's Lane or whatever it will be called, that gives it a special place, quite apart from the main building. I'm hopeful this will be a successful blending, in the end.

[Mike K.]

Or put a more meaningful way, if the facade restoration cost $100,000, that's a $637 hit per condo that must be absorbed by buyers. If the restoration cost more, just raise that hit. And so on.

But it's not over yet. In the event the facade has issues in later years, perhaps even soon after occupancy, buyers will be on the hook for the maintenance.

[dasmo]

Everything about the Union's design/facade lends itself to accommodating a restored heritage facade and it works well in that instance.

Here we have a modern highrise with what looks like a tacked on facade. It's just weird is what it is, but as you say it might work out in the end. But again, at what cost is this gamble?

 

Except the cardboard siding on the top layers :-(  None of that on the Era I think ;-)

[VicHockeyFan]

Or put a more meaningful way, if the facade restoration cost $100,000, that's a $637 hit per condo that must be absorbed by buyers. If the restoration cost more, just raise that hit. And so on.

But it's not over yet. In the event the facade has issues in later years, perhaps even soon after occupancy, buyers will be on the hook for the maintenance.

 

Whatever, nobody is making anyone buy the condos.  I'm still curious why the facade was saved.  Was it to try to please the design people and council, to get the project through, or was it indeed to keep from having a setback, as a previous poster wondered aloud.

[jonny]

Whatever, nobody is making anyone buy the condos.  I'm still curious why the facade was saved.  Was it to try to please the design people and council, to get the project through, or was it indeed to keep from having a setback, as a previous poster wondered aloud.

 

I'd be curious to know the rationale as well.

 

Saving the facade seems a bit silly, but I'm willing to see how it looks as a finished product. If prospective owners balk at the facade costing their unit in the order-of-magnitude of three thousandths of a percent more than it otherwise might have than I guess that's on Concert for making that particular business decision.

[dasmo]

No need for conjecture, it's written right into the spot zoning....

 

http://www.victoria....Bylaws/6.64.pdf

[D.L.]

Maybe it was retained so that the project would be considered to be a renovation of the existing structure and not subject to the rules a completely new building would be. Or not

 

 

Sounds like you're planning a heist. Who's in?

 

I was on that dating website again last night and found three women who are looking for "partners in crime." I'll send them a message now and let them know what the plan is

[Mike K.]

Whatever, nobody is making anyone buy the condos.  I'm still curious why the facade was saved.  Was it to try to please the design people and council, to get the project through, or was it indeed to keep from having a setback, as a previous poster wondered aloud.

 

So what are we then, a city grappling with affordability or a city willing to spend hundreds, maybe even thousands of dollars, per unit to retain some facade?

 

I guess my point is are we actually facing a crisis or is that crisis more of a political piece of leverage? Because everything I'm seeing suggests the latter to be true and the Era's facade is a perfect opportunity to bring the issue of "affordability" and "housing prices" to light.

[dasmo]

No need for conjecture, it's written right into the spot zoning....

 

http://www.victoria....Bylaws/6.64.pdf

It's not the condo buyer footing the bill. The developer got extra density and extra height and setback provisions therefore increasing their number of units for sale.... 

Edited by dasmo, 25 March 2014 - 10:36 AM.

[Mike K.]

Who else but the condo foots the bill? The building has to pay for itself and turn a profit, facade retention and added units or not.

 

It just means that every unit, as part of their condo unit price, includes the $637 fee for retaining the facade provided the work cost $100,000. It's actually likely far more if you price out all of the work done to-date even before the actual building was demo'd and the added cost of working around a fragile element on a busy construction site.

[dasmo]

I for one do not want a free for all out there. So many bad developments have scarred our city.  What the Era is doing in particular is a rejuvenation of that little zone of downtown. It's like a laser treatment to the scar that the odeon created.... 

[Mike K.]

Would Era still do all of that without that little facade, though?

[jonny]

Who else but the condo foots the bill? The building has to pay for itself and turn a profit, facade retention and added units or not.

 

It just means that every unit, as part of their condo unit price, includes the $637 fee for retaining the facade provided the work cost $100,000. It's actually likely far more if you price out all of the work done to-date even before the actual building was demo'd and the added cost of working around a fragile element on a busy construction site.

 

You are not describing how goods are priced in a free market. Pricing is based upon supply and demand, not on the cost of production. A higher cost of production just means Concert is making a smaller gross margin on each unit.

 

In general this area should be zoned for higher density, which will do much more to increase the supply of housing than worrying about one facade.