1722 replies to this topic

[Nparker]

I could not find a specific thread on the Grace Islet issue, but since this has been one of Mr. Isitt's pet projects (on his time away from Council I presume), I though't I'd post this here: http://www.timescolo...perty-1.1732331

 

(mods feel free to move this if a better thread is available)

[Greg]

I find that odd because ethical investing has been a topic of discussion since the 1980's when the boycotts of South Africa were in full swing. Every institution and even some businesses began getting flack for investing in companies that committed crimes and made decisons that harmed the environment.

Maybe because most of these conversations so far have read less like a noble quest to end apartheid, and more like a chance to demonize fossil fuels for cheap political points.

[Mike K.]

^Exactly.

What do the jets use for fuel Councillor Isitt flies on when visiting the Motherland? Canola?

[pherthyl]

Maybe because most of these conversations so far have read less like a noble quest to end apartheid, and more like a chance to demonize fossil fuels for cheap political points.

Sure, it's not like there is overwhelming evidence that the extraction and burning of fossil fuels causes global warming which will cause a lot more damage than apartheid ever did.
Yep it's just a play for "political points".

Edited by pherthyl, 15 January 2015 - 06:53 PM.

[dasmo]

Burning it is bad for the environment sure, but we still need it to make the materials and chemicals necessary to make the solar panels, batteries, car parts even if they are electric, tires, asphalt etc... And it will take a lot of it to make enough to replace all the fossil fuel burning infrastructure we have... Our industrialized society is very much entangled in fossil fuels well beyond gas for your car. But...one step at a time...

[sebberry]

Sure, it's not like there is overwhelming evidence that the extraction and burning of fossil fuels causes global warming which will cause a lot more damage than apartheid ever did.
Yep it's just a play for "political points".

 

The difference Victoria can make in the world's climate is absolutely miniscule even if we took drastic actions here. 

 

Yet every day the hard working people of Victoria have to dance around used condoms and needles while being harassed by drug addicts for money. 

[Greg]

Sure, it's not like there is overwhelming evidence that the extraction and burning of fossil fuels causes global warming which will cause a lot more damage than apartheid ever did.
Yep it's just a play for "political points".

You divest in an "unethical" company because you want no part of that company and would like to see them cease to do business. Anyone who thinks the world would be a better place if the fossil fuel companies stopped doing business isn't thinking very clearly.

[pherthyl]

You divest in an "unethical" company because you want no part of that company and would like to see them cease to do business. Anyone who thinks the world would be a better place if the fossil fuel companies stopped doing business isn't thinking very clearly.

 

Except you don't understand the movement at all.  No one is under the delusion that this will put them out of business.  

We are getting off topic here, but divesting in fossil fuel companies means investing in alternative energies.  And yes, the world would be a much better place if we push alternative energies over fossil fuels.   The transition is inevitable anyway, so just a matter of putting more money behind it.

Edited by pherthyl, 16 January 2015 - 10:00 AM.

[dasmo]

Except you don't understand the movement at all.  No one is under the delusion that this will put them out of business.  

We are getting off topic here, but divesting in fossil fuel companies means investing in alternative energies.  And yes, the world would be a much better place if we push alternative energies over fossil fuels.   The transition is inevitable anyway, so just a matter of putting more money behind it.

 

Maybe....until we discover that solar energy on a mass scale is sucking all that solar energy away from the earths surface and is therefore altering weather patterns and decimating microbes essential to the web of life....or all those wind turbines on a mass scale alter weather patterns and are decimating bird and bee populations. Plus, eventually the secret that oil is actually abiogenic will eventually get out....

[VicHockeyFan]

Except you don't understand the movement at all.  No one is under the delusion that this will put them out of business.  

We are getting off topic here, but divesting in fossil fuel companies means investing in alternative energies.  And yes, the world would be a much better place if we push alternative energies over fossil fuels.   The transition is inevitable anyway, so just a matter of putting more money behind it.

 

I agree that the transition is inevitable.  But more like over 30, 50, or 100 years, not 10.  Just because everyone says they'd like to go to alternative sources and a very few of them invest there, doesn't mean it's going to happen any faster than it's going to naturally on its own.

 

Economy trumps environment 95% of the time in the Western World, and even more so in the developing world.

[Greg]

Except you don't understand the movement at all.  No one is under the delusion that this will put them out of business.  

We are getting off topic here, but divesting in fossil fuel companies means investing in alternative energies.  And yes, the world would be a much better place if we push alternative energies over fossil fuels.   The transition is inevitable anyway, so just a matter of putting more money behind it.

Everything about this conversation convinces me that I actually have a better understanding of it than you do. But internet pissing contest aside, there is this:

 

Philanthropic angel investments in emerging technologies may be important to the transition as you suggest. But this is not and should not be the investment remit of local governments or anyone else holding a fiduciary trust relationship over funds that are collected from taxpayers (or strata members, or other non-investor collections of funds for which the investment is not the primary reason that the body holds the funds). The purpose of investing the type of funds discussed here is to have a low risk, interest bearing home for capital to earn a modest, safe return until applied to the purpose for which it was collected.

 

If you want to drive the move to newer technologies through targeted investments, start your own investors club. But it is not the appropriate use of funds collected by tax assessments.

[pherthyl]

Everything about this conversation convinces me that I actually have a better understanding of it than you do. But internet pissing contest aside, there is this:

Philanthropic angel investments in emerging technologies may be important to the transition as you suggest. But this is not and should not be the investment remit of local governments or anyone else holding a fiduciary trust relationship over funds that are collected from taxpayers (or strata members, or other non-investor collections of funds for which the investment is not the primary reason that the body holds the funds). The purpose of investing the type of funds discussed here is to have a low risk, interest bearing home for capital to earn a modest, safe return until applied to the purpose for which it was collected.

so what you're actually saying is that ethical investment has no place in public funds and the boycott of South Africa in the 80s was also a mistake.

You can't have it both ways. Either ethical investment concerns have no place in investment of public funds or they do. I don't think you'll find much agreement that public money should be invested regarless of ethical concerns. So really we are just squabbling over whether there are any such concerns with oil.

[Mike K.]

Lisa Helps is hosting a public drop in today between 11am and 1pm.

[Nparker]

Lisa Helps is hosting a public drop in today between 11am and 1pm.

Can I come by with my chickens?

[sebberry]

Your chickens can have a play date with Lisa's chickens

[Nparker]

Your chickens can have a play date with Lisa's chickens

That's what I was thinking...

[VicHockeyFan]

Lisa Helps is hosting a public drop in today between 11am and 1pm.

 

 

 

Join Me In Conversation

"In Community: The Structure of Belonging Peter Block writes that “the leader is held to three tasks: to shift the context in which people gather, to name the debate through powerful questions, and to listen rather than advocate, defend or provide answers.” This is the spirit in which I’m piloting a new format of the mayor’s regular time with the public.

As Mayor, I want members of the public to have the opportunity to drop in and see me. It’s also important for me that people have an opportunity to meet others, engage in conversation, and share thoughts, ideas and concerns, and to build community and a sense of belonging.

 To this end, I’m going to pilot my regular time with the public every two weeks as a community conversation rather than a series of 10 minute one-on-one meetings, as has been done in the past. This will allow me to hear your hopes, ideas and concerns for our city, but not in a vacuum. Others can chime in too. My experience is that the public has lots of wisdom, the ability to make connections, and to help come up with solutions.  I’ll take notes and make sure that if you do have something that needs to be passed along to one of our operational departments or to Council for consideration, that’ll happen.

I look forward to welcoming you on the comfy couches in the Mayor’s office and to making you a cup of tea."

Lisa Helps, Victoria Mayor

www.lisahelpsvictoria.ca

250.661.2708

@lisahelps

 

 

[Rob Randall]

^Vic, what do you think of this group chat compared to the one-on-one format? I get that it can be very productive but sometimes you want to bring up a specific set of issues with the mayor

[VicHockeyFan]

^Vic, what do you think of this group chat compared to the one-on-one format? I get that it can be very productive but sometimes you want to bring up a specific set of issues with the mayor

 

Ya, I'm curious how it might work.  Or not work.  I'd hate the idea that a Denis Oliver type would sit for the whole 2 hours and monopolize the whole conversation.  On the other hand, I'm the kind of guy that could sit all 2 hours and find it fascinating, and only chime in a few times.  You know, pick your points carefully.  I think you are too, Rob.  I'm never disappointed that I arrive at a council meeting way too early for my topic, as I enjoy some of the meeting on on the topics too.

 

 

Maybe it'll morph.  Rather than drop-in, maybe have people submit in advance to be there, and then they draw from hat, with priority to those that have not been there for 6 months.  Over the course of two hours, it seems like you might get your 5 minutes for your topic, with opportunity for discussion all-around.

[spanky123]

^Vic, what do you think of this group chat compared to the one-on-one format? I get that it can be very productive but sometimes you want to bring up a specific set of issues with the mayor

 

I think that she got tired of the same people showing up every week and complaining about the same items for 10 minutes. Good and bad with group meetings.