91 replies to this topic

[14 West]

I obviously have no idea what is in the disclosure statement, these are just my observations based on what my friends have told me.

It'd the dividers that separate adjacent decks from each other that are unfinished, currently they are just one long mono-deck with a complete lack of privacy. As for the storage area, for those living in the ~600 sq-ft units, not having storage is a sentence to very miserable living.

And yep - that is the gamble they take - if they hadn't lost their shirts you wouldn't have seen them flowing back the profits to the owners, but if things go sideways, it seems to be acceptable to socialize the loss.

[PulpVictor]

Aquattro failed because the bank pulled the financing when the market went sour.

It may be significant that the developer of this project was a former hockey player, and brother of Len Barrie's. I generally don't paint brothers with the same brush, but, just saying.

Of course the developer must complete what is in the contract, but no developer is going to complete an entire project if there is no money to do so. They are trying to do pre-sales for the next phase now. This market is very tough.

[vandervalk]

Rest assured there is no folding or throwing in the towel with this development. The market, as others have pointed out, is difficult right now but things are moving forward, albeit a little slower than originally anticipated and the second phase is slated to begin development around March of next year.

It is unfair to make negative comments about Mike. While Mike and Len are brothers, Len has nothing to do with this project. Mike isn't the only person with interest in this project and money invested and there are other people that are also involved, so it is unfair to assume anything because of last names.

I have no stakes in this project nor tied into it other than being a contract company assisting them in marketing and advertising.

[Mike K.]

It is unfair to make negative comments about Mike. While Mike and Len are brothers, Len has nothing to do with this project. Mike isn't the only person with interest in this project and money invested and there are other people that are also involved, so it is unfair to assume anything because of last names.

If what West 14 is saying is true then I think it is fair to say that the developer is sidestepping his obligations regardless of whether or not he is the brother of Len Barrie.

West 14, shouldn't the strata council be getting involved with this and taking the developer to task?

[PulpVictor]

Rest assured there is no folding or throwing in the towel with this development. The market, as others have pointed out, is difficult right now but things are moving forward, albeit a little slower than originally anticipated and the second phase is slated to begin development around March of next year.

It is unfair to make negative comments about Mike. While Mike and Len are brothers, Len has nothing to do with this project. Mike isn't the only person with interest in this project and money invested and there are other people that are also involved, so it is unfair to assume anything because of last names.

I have no stakes in this project nor tied into it other than being a contract company assisting them in marketing and advertising.

Please read my post more carefully. I think it is important for people to know who the developer in any project is. That is all

[LJ]

So we take one comment from somebody whose friend says......, and leap to the conclusion that the developer is broke?

Once a developer has started to build another project that is where their attention is.
Good developers, who are experienced, will have a man or two carrying out deficiency repairs at their last project as that is all the people buying the new project are going to look at to see what sort of a builder the guy is. Their is usually a hold back lien on each property until you sign that all deficiencies have been taken care of, that is the only way I would do it.

Were the people in the <600 sq. ft. promised storage space? If so have the strata contact a lawyer and get it rectified. Did they inspect their storage facility before completion?

FWIW I have had more trouble getting a contractor to come back and finish work when the good times were rolling than I have had before or after, they were off to the next project.

[mysage]

I agree. This seems no more than the usual "we will get to it when we can" situation like a lot of developers face. Near the end of a building a developers attentions, monies and efforts are often at a low ebb and I am sure given the size of this project (more to come) this developer is smart enough not to create a "public relations" problem over a relatively small amount of work remaining to be done.

[Mike K.]

I agree. This seems no more than the usual "we will get to it when we can" situation like a lot of developers face.

West 14 says it's been a year since any attention has been paid to this issue by the developer.

[14 West]

The storage space was definitely part of what they purchased. I think the main entry way is also incomplete, as are much of the grounds.

As far as the strata goes, I think there has been trouble getting traction on getting that going as the developer still owns a large majority of the units and many others have absentee owners.

I'd figure there'd be something written in law that requires a building to be finished as I would imagine writing up a purchase contract that specific would be quite cumbersome and there is no way the developer ignore finishing basic parts of the building via the standard "features subject to change" type of clauses.

Still, when and if everything gets sorted its a nice building.

Interestingly, I have had similar experiences renting a unit at Aquattro. The reasons why that development was not finished are obviously different, but many of the things that were promised to be finished were not, and the owners of the unit I lived in were clearly upset with how things were left. Again, because the developer still owned the majority of the units, the strata was powerless.

With both cases, I guess that is the risk you take buying pre-sale.

[14 West]

West 14 says it's been a year since any attention has been paid to this issue by the developer.

Occupancy was also something like 6-7 months behind schedule.

But we are coming away form the initial question that was not specific to this development, but only used it as an example - Does the developer have to complete the building? The landscaping or the grounds? And to what level as presumably those specifics are not laid out tile by tile.

[vandervalk]

The storage space was definitely part of what they purchased. I think the main entry way is also incomplete, as are much of the grounds.

As far as the strata goes, I think there has been trouble getting traction on getting that going as the developer still owns a large majority of the units and many others have absentee owners.

I know the original question wasn't pertaining directly to Mariner's, and I'm certainly not qualified to speak on behalf of the developer about their Strata, but I can definitely clarify some of the general points and questions.

The entrance way is fully completed as are the grounds for this first Phase. There is 14 acres of property in this development and the first Phase only takes up a small portion of that, so it's hard to define what is or what might appear incomplete as there is much unused land all around these condos and are in a current state of construction as you could imagine. But in terms of landscaping and entrance way, it has been completed and looks very nice.

There is 8 remaining units out of 26 left for sale for the condos and 3 out of 8 high end penthouses left, which isn't surprising because the prices are much higher than the condos in this market.

There are 2, maybe 3 town homes left out of 16 that were for sale.

If any of you would like to come out to see the development I would be happy to show you around, inside and out. Just let me know.

[MarkoJ]

Occupancy was also something like 6-7 months behind schedule.

But we are coming away form the initial question that was not specific to this development, but only used it as an example - Does the developer have to complete the building? The landscaping or the grounds? And to what level as presumably those specifics are not laid out tile by tile.

Most contracts have delay clauses of up to one year or more, so not much you can do about late occupancy.

You would be surprised how detailed some disclosure statements are, I know when I bought at the 834 the disclosure statement discussed landscaping and plants and it was a really small garden.

However, some things are a bit ambiguous. For example, a few buyers complained about the size of the storage lockers and when we examined the disclosure statement no specific size was specified. It was only noted that each unit would receive one storage locker.

There are risks to buying pre-sale but blue chip builders want to keep face. Concert and Bosa have a large following. Even Chard development has already had 3 or 4 people buy at the Duet and they current own at the 834. Reputation is very important in the business.

[tedward]

I have no stakes in this project nor tied into it other than being a contract company assisting them in marketing and advertising.

LOL

So, to re-phrase: you have no financial interest in the development other than being paid to promote it?

Are you by any chance a graduate of the Rob Ford School of Ethics?

[MarkoJ]

Their is usually a hold back lien on each property until you sign that all deficiencies have been taken care of, that is the only way I would do it.

Maybe on residential homes, but most big developments make you complete on the unit before you even see it. I don't think big developers would agree to a hold back in terms of deficiencies. That would be a nightmare with lawyers, etc., when you have sometimes 100-150 units completing.

My father is a residential builder and as of a few years ago we don't accepting deficiency holdbacks. We accept deficiencies, just not the hold back. Too many bad experiences, I remember 4-5 years ago we accepted a $4,000 holdback even though the work was only maybe $1,000. Rectified everything on the list but a small spot in the tile couldn't be rectified (it was a natural spot as it was natural tile). Anyway, buyer refused to release $4,000 holdback and we had to give him $1,500 cash to release plus it was a huge pain to deal with this individual. Really, what do you do? You can't go to court over $4,000 economically.

I know at the 834 out of 115 buyers, you always get 10 that are completely unrealistic and drive the contractor, developers, and lawyers crazy.


So both sides to the story.

[vandervalk]

LOL

So, to re-phrase: you have no financial interest in the development other than being paid to promote it?

Are you by any chance a graduate of the Rob Ford School of Ethics?

Perhaps I worded that incorrectly, however I wanted to stress that I'm not a part of the company building it nor do I have any money put into the development, so I'm not representing this development from an ownership point of view.

I get paid for what they ask me to do, I own my own advertising agency. And no part of my job requires me to defend the development. As a huge advocate of the community of Sooke, owner of http://www.discoversooke.com and a resident of Sooke my interest lies in the positive growth and development of Sooke for my family.

Mariner's Village isn't my sole income or client. If I wasn't working alongside them I would still support this project for our community. A 10 year build is a great length of time and who knows how long I'll be the company working for them or if they will need my services or choose to use another company in the future. Either way this is a great project for Sooke overall.

[PulpVictor]

If I remember correctly, this development is also LEED (I don't remember which grade; gold, platinum, etc). Five years ago LEED was all the rage. There was money then to develop 'green'. Because the approvals are for LEED, they have to continue that very expensive build out. This could also delay the project. I don't know how the money was raised for the project, but chances are there won't be pre-sales until the HST is gone, and even then, this is a very expensive deal all the way around.

[mysage]

Perhaps I worded that incorrectly, however I wanted to stress that I'm not a part of the company building it nor do I have any money put into the development, so I'm not representing this development from an ownership point of view.

I get paid for what they ask me to do, I own my own advertising agency. And no part of my job requires me to defend the development. As a huge advocate of the community of Sooke, owner of http://www.discoversooke.com and a resident of Sooke my interest lies in the positive growth and development of Sooke for my family.

Mariner's Village isn't my sole income or client. If I wasn't working alongside them I would still support this project for our community. A 10 year build is a great length of time and who knows how long I'll be the company working for them or if they will need my services or choose to use another company in the future. Either way this is a great project for Sooke overall.

I agree with you. I think that this is great development for Sooke. I am sure that it will face many challenges as we all do in this economy but that shouldn't deter people from looking at the long term benefits for both themselves and the community.

[LJ]

Maybe on residential homes, but most big developments make you complete on the unit before you even see it. I don't think big developers would agree to a hold back in terms of deficiencies. That would be a nightmare with lawyers, etc., when you have sometimes 100-150 units completing.

My father is a residential builder and as of a few years ago we don't accepting deficiency holdbacks. We accept deficiencies, just not the hold back. Too many bad experiences, I remember 4-5 years ago we accepted a $4,000 holdback even though the work was only maybe $1,000. Rectified everything on the list but a small spot in the tile couldn't be rectified (it was a natural spot as it was natural tile). Anyway, buyer refused to release $4,000 holdback and we had to give him $1,500 cash to release plus it was a huge pain to deal with this individual. Really, what do you do? You can't go to court over $4,000 economically.

I know at the 834 out of 115 buyers, you always get 10 that are completely unrealistic and drive the contractor, developers, and lawyers crazy.


So both sides to the story.

Well I have never bought a condo so I must admit my knowledge of that is limited, but getting better, thanks.

On every house I had built I held back final payment until all the deficiencies were taken care of. Mind you I was on site pretty much every day so most errors were corrected right away.

[14 West]

There is 8 remaining units out of 26 left for sale for the condos and 3 out of 8 high end penthouses left, which isn't surprising because the prices are much higher than the condos in this market.

Just an observation, but wouldn't that make the sign that says "85% Sold" slightly misleading?

[vandervalk]

Just an observation, but wouldn't that make the sign that says "85% Sold" slightly misleading?

When that sign was put up there it was 85% sold. However upon closing there were multiple condos/townhomes that people couldn't close on for various personal reasons and were put back on the market. Noted that is should be removed. Thanks.