3104 replies to this topic

[Victoria Watcher]

They really only need to open the track from Goldstream Village into town to start with, perhaps to end with.
Stations at Goldstream Village, Jacklin Road, Veterans Memorial Parkway, Six Mile Road, Helmcken Road, and Tyee/Esquimalt Rd area ... and you're done.

They have to run a double ended train, as there is no turning facility anywhere in the system.
That's primarily why the old Budd Cars were used before the line was shut down ... as they were a double ended, self-powered car.

The last Budd Car was made in 1962, so we won't be seeing any more of them on the line. But there are plenty of push-pull options these days, and running a push-pull, multi-car, double-decker train isn't particularly unusual:
https://en.wikipedia...Push–pull_train

Depending on how many cars in a single train-set the current track design will accommodate, such a rig might move 500-800 people at a time, with perhaps two or three trips in the morning, and then the same again at close of business.
The wake-up though is that still only totals around 1500+ people ... and even if everyone was a single driver, that's really only taking maybe 1500 cars out of the Crawl equation.

every train would have to be accessible as all the stops would be.

now if you are not going to fix the track to nanaimo you will also need maintenance shops here. that will cost 50 million alone.

[Cassidy]

nobody wants to drive a car to a park and ride. wait for a train. walk into downtown. and do all that in reverse again at dinner time.

You mean like the rest of the world does?

What an odd statement to make in a discussion about mass transit.

[Cassidy]

every train would have to be accessible as all the stops would be.

now if you are not going to fix the track to nanaimo you will also need maintenance shops here. that will cost 50 million alone.

You'll recall that, in the course of examining the alternatives, I went on to note that using the old E&N line would be a less than intelligent decision to make.

 

I then noted that "I suspect investing in a double-track, high speed contemporary mass-transit system would be the better investment".

Edited by Cassidy, 13 February 2019 - 07:43 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

the rest of the world does it to enjoy a train trip of more than 28 minutes or to avoid a car trip of more than 28 minutes (much less off-peak).

if you work at say the ministry of health or the parliament precinct your walk is 15+ minutes each way.

in calgary and toronto they also do it somewhat to avoid $40/day parking downtown.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 13 February 2019 - 07:48 AM.

[Cats4Hire]

Unless there's an express bus that goes from wherever the last stop is and stops at say Douglas/View and the Legislature then back (and leaves only when the train gets there and the people on it and is free if you came via the train) I doubt anyone would really convert to a train from their car they can park in a nearby parkade and not have a 30 minute walk daily just to get to/from work.

[Victoria Watcher]

but if a train brings in 300 people at once you need lots of buses. so your last stop now has to be a little further out. I dont think people moving into the songhees planned for a train station with a 5 or 7 bus bay plus car waiting area too.

[Cats4Hire]

Yeah I just don't see rail working with how the railway is and where everything people want to go to. As you said the 50 is probably just as quick to get downtown and you get to other places like VGH, Uptown, Mayfair, etc

[Victoria Watcher]

plus the 50 runs every 6-8 minutes in the rush. the best 3 or 4 trains could likely do is every 20 minutes. as one train has to arrive at songhees unload then move to a siding to let the next one arrive. and to let the buses complete a 20 minute loop and come back.

6:40
7:00
7:20
7:40

departures from langford and then the rush is over.

you’d need 4 trains. 7 buses. a train and track maintenance facility probably in langford. all new stations with accessible access and some pick-up and lots of day parking at each.

is the track anywhere near potential parking locations?

and then to top it off the 13 mayors say we need a new fn agreement.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 13 February 2019 - 08:46 AM.

[Nparker]

Commuter trains died the day it was decided not to include rail on the new JSB.

[jonny]

This whole thing is ridiculous. That we're still talking about the E&N corridor being used to move commuters on a train in 2019 is just absurd. 

 

The only thing that maybe makes sense on that corridor is BRT, but even that route is way out of the way for 90+% of potential users. 

 

We're certainly talking about a 9 figure project, plus massive maintenance and ongoing costs - for a system that likely would barely be able to make a dent in the issue. Without a train being able to go up to the centre of town, say Douglas/Fort, then we're talking about a half-assed solution at best. 

[Mike K.]

Commuter trains died the day it was decided not to include rail on the new JSB.

Oh I agree. Horgan said as much himself.

[jonny]

Oh I agree. Horgan said as much himself.

 

Even then, what commuter wants to trudge up and down to/from Wharf St to their office on Blanshard or Superior every single day? You might as well drive in from Langford - it'll take just as long, anyway. 

 

Calling it a half-assed solution - even with rail across the bridge - is being very generous. That's why the previous service was nothing more than a modest little tourism service (that barely anybody used, in case we have forgotten). 

 

We already have a half decent bus system. All we need is some targeted enhancement and better park & ride offerings. 

[Jackerbie]

Commuter trains died the day it was decided not to include rail on the new JSB.

 

At least there was zero effort put in to the plaza on the Songhees side so it won't be missed if used for a rail crossing, and at the rate Northern Junk is proceeding they might as well include a train station in the development anyways. It just might open in time for the inaugural E&N trip across the JSB Annex! 

[Coreyburger]

nobody wants to drive a car to a park and ride. wait for a train. walk into downtown. and do all that in reverse again at dinner time. the only reason people use the park and ride now is because the buses are fairly frequent. a less frequent train and the downtown walk negates any time saving on that portion of the trip.

 

https://www.gotransit.com/

[RFS]

https://www.gotransit.com/

 

Oh well, if it works in the GTA with over 6 million people, surely the same will apply here on Vancouver Island right?

[Bob Fugger]

Beat me to it!

[jonny]

https://www.gotransit.com/

 

The GO Trains go right to Union Station (among other stations such as Bloor and Exhibition) in the heart of downtown Toronto with direct connections to the city's extensive subway and streetcar systems. That's totally the same thing as a service that'll drop people off at the Delta in Vic West.

[Coreyburger]

Oh well, if it works in the GTA with over 6 million people, surely the same will apply here on Vancouver Island right?

 

I only use it an example. There are lots of commuter rail services with park and rides throughout North America that do fairly well

[Victoria Watcher]

https://www.gotransit.com/

 

gotransit is a very good system. nobody takes it for 28-minute trips though.

 

go trains have about 55 stops.  only 5 of them are within 20 minutes of union station.

 

and the trains are so horrifically expensive to run that it's replaced with mostly buses outside of rush and on weekends.

 

downtown toronto covered parking is also more than 4x the rates we pay. so there is some incentive there.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 13 February 2019 - 09:57 AM.

[Mike K.]

Yes, with Park-and-rides that accommodate thousands of vehicles. I don’t think even a 1,000 vehicle park-and-ride can be accommodated on the Westshore which will be situated alongside the tracks.