39 replies to this topic

[VicHockeyFan]

I almost spit out my beer when I read the headline quickly.. anyway, so this one deserves its own thread...

CFAX:

VICTORIA MAYOR WANTS TO CREATE 'VIBRANT' DOWNTOWN VICTORIA

May 27, 2009

VICTORIA MAYOR DEAN FORTIN SAYS IF VICTORIA IS GOING TO HAVE A VIBRANT DOWNTOWN, PROBLEMS WITH LATE NIGHT VIOLENCE AND ROWDINESS WILL HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED.

HE SAYS THAT IS THE JOB OF THE NEW DOWNTOWN TASK FORCE. HE ALSO SAYS MEMBERS OF THE TASK FORCE WILL BE OUT AND ABOUT LATE AT NIGHT SOLICITING OPINION FROM THE PUBLIC OVER THE LATENIGHT DOWNTOWN SITUATION.

"WE'RE GOING TO GO OUT AND TALK TO USER GROUPS. IF YOU SEE YOUR MAYOR, IF YOU SEE YOUR COUNCILLOR OUT LATE AT NIGHT WALKING AROUND TALKING TO PEOPLE, WE'RE NOT CRAZY, WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO BE ASKING PEOPLE, HANDING OUT CARDS SAYING 'TELL US WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT MAKING THE DOWNTOWN VIBRANT'. WHAT'S THE PROBLEMS? WHAT'S THE SOLUTIONS? WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY?"

HE SAYS THE JOB OF THE TASKFORCE WILL BE COMPREHENSIVE, IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT SHUTTING DOWN LATE NIGHT EATERIES.

FORTIN SAYS THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE SMALL BUSINESSES DOWNTOWN RELY ON CITY HALL AND THE POLICE TO ACT AS SECURITY AND HE WANTS TO MAKE THOSE BUSINESSES FEEL SAFE.

FORTIN SPOKE WITH ERICK THOMPSON ON CFAX 1070'S NEWSLINE PM.

- LIZ MCARTHUR

My difficulty is that the only handful of complaints are from the odd downtown business that is vandalized, and downtown hotels etc. You average citizen is not concerned about downtown rowdiness, they are not around downtown after 12am. And you average tourist is only concerned about night-time noise, as they are in bed by 12, because there is nothing open past 12.

I say throw the idiots in the tank, fine them, as is the policy now, no one leaves the drunk tank without a fine in his pocket, the new chief made that clear, and charge vandals and violent individuals.

Simple to me.

[victorian fan]

LATE NIGHT VIOLENCE AND ROWDINESS

A bunch of drunken louts are handed

CARDS SAYING 'TELL US WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT MAKING THE DOWNTOWN VIBRANT'.

[G-Man]

HE SAYS THE JOB OF THE TASKFORCE WILL BE COMPREHENSIVE, IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT SHUTTING DOWN LATE NIGHT EATERIES.

Oh thank god, I was worried that this was just about shutting down places to eat but it sounds like they will be comprehensive and shut down others places too.

Nice work hemming the taskforce in there Mayor, how about it go in with an open mind on alternatives that fix the issues while not putting needed late night services out of business.

[mat]

This is such a back-assword approach. Sure - councillors, city staff and the Mayor should take the time to walk downtown late night (along with every other neighbourhood and park), but to 'engage in a conversation'?

One can imagine the dialogue...

Mayor - 'You, sir - what do think about our Vibrant Downtown?'

Guy - 'Well, er, (burp, giggle). The Kokanee at the bar and grill is F'ing A, I quaffed 13 over Happy Hour. Guy sells great dope in that alley way - and the pizza at this late night place is totally f'ing divine! Wanna toke man?

Mayor - 'Glad you are enjoying yourself. Any ideas to improve our pristine downtown core?'

Guy - 'Yep, c'rtainly - it's umm (tries to focus on watch - wrong arm), it's like umm 11:30 and me and my hoodies want some eats, all you got open is this dinky pizza window place. Like, even Port Angeles has more **** goin' on than this. Things so bad, had to call shore patrol from the boat - 'therwise some locals be beat by my crew'

Mayor - 'Yes, I noticed you are all in uniform. Well, thankyou for your comments. Please extend my best wishes to the captain of your vessel'

Guy - '(burp) I am the f'ing captain... wishes extended duly, fine, thanks (puke). How d'you get a cab in this f'ing town?

News Flash - Victoria Mayor considers banning Naval personnel from city core at night.

[VicHockeyFan]

This is such a back-assword approach. Sure - councillors, city staff and the Mayor should take the time to walk downtown late night (along with every other neighbourhood and park), but to 'engage in a conversation'?

One can imagine the dialogue...

Mayor - 'You, sir - what do think about our Vibrant Downtown?'

Guy - 'Well, er, (burp, giggle). The Kokanee at the bar and grill is F'ing A, I quaffed 13 over Happy Hour. Dude sells great dope in that alley way - and the pizza at this late night place is totally f'ing divine! Wanna toke man?

Mayor - 'Glad you are enjoying yourself. Any ideas to improve our pristine downtown core?'

Guy - 'Yep, c'rtainly - it's umm (tries to focus on watch - wrong arm), it's like umm 11:30 and me and my hoodies want some eats, all you got open is this dinky pizza window place. Like, even Port Angeles has more **** goin' on than this. Things so bad, had to call shore patrol from the boat - 'therwise some locals be beat by my crew'

Mayor - 'Yes, I noticed you are all in uniform. Well, thankyou for your comments. Please extend my best wishes to the captain of your vessel'

Guy - '(burp) I am the f'ing captain... wishes extended duly, fine, thanks (puke). How d'you get a cab in this f'ing town?

News Flash - Victoria Mayor considers banning Naval personnel from city core at night.

Holy, that's classic....

[VicHockeyFan]

I was thinking....

Mayor: Hey guys, what can we do to make Victoria vibrant?

Drunk guys: ****in' Victoria; ****in' vibrant Victoria...that's ****ed. Vibrant Victoria, that's all f-ed up!

News Item: Mayors task force aims to close late-night eateries, and popular website, cites constructive citizen concerns from feedback during evening walk-about.

[mat]

I was thinking....

Mayor: Hey guys, what can we do to make Victoria vibrant?

Drunk guys: ****in' Victoria; ****in' vibrant Victoria...that's ****ed. Vibrant Victoria, that's all f-ed up!

News Item: Mayors task force aims to close late-night eateries, and popular website, cites constructive citizen concerns from feedback during evening walk-about.

Is there a facebook page for City of Victoria? - I feel a disruptive streak is invading my usual contemplative soul....

[Ms. B. Havin]

^ You guys are brilliant! Sheesh, how I hope council & mayor are reading this. Mat's imaginary dialogue (and VHF's embellishment) nails it.

[Phil McAvity]

I'd like some proof of all this "late night violence and rowdinesss" because I drove cab nights for many years in Victoria and gradually saw these things decrease to the point where seeing a fight was quite rare. When I started driving cab in the mid '90's, fights were more common. I'd like to see some stats that this is a problem because I sure didn't see it. What I did see increase a lot over the years was vandalism in the form of tagging and spray-painting, yet Fortin made no mention of that.

[Bernard]

I'd like some proof of all this "late night violence and rowdinesss" because I drove cab nights for many years in Victoria and gradually saw these things decrease to the point where seeing a fight was quite rare. When I started driving cab in the mid '90's, fights were more common. I'd like to see some stats that this is a problem because I sure didn't see it. What I did see increase a lot over the years was vandalism in the form of tagging and spray-painting, yet Fortin made no mention of that.

I remember in the 1980s seeing a lot of fights downtown late at night on the weekend. Often outside of Scotts All Night Diner on Yates, or the Olympic or the Kings. I had several instances were very drunk short guys were egging me on to fight them.

[mat]

^ You guys are brilliant! Sheesh, how I hope council & mayor are reading this. Mat's imaginary dialogue (and VHF's embellishment) nails it.

Firstly - thanks to all who Pm'd and emailed regarding the 'imaginary dialogue' post, and VHF's response. In the likely event of a libel lawsuit, we are accepting donations to the VV legal fund - please PM Mike K for details - and in advance of depositions "all characters, except the Mayor, are fictional, and my sincere apologies to all Naval personnel"

Now the serious part. There is a disconnect between the reality of nightlife in the downtown core, and councils perception and inclination to action. Mayor Fortin has publicly stated he wants to see a Vibrant City, full of happy satisfied, well behaved locals and tourists, enjoying themselves into the early morning hours. A Vibrant core would also contribute to core density, and the pleasures of living in an area with multi-faceted, even eclectic, activities and venues.

You DO NOT accomplish that by placing restrictions on business, or by frameworking bylaws which fly in the face of human nature. Restaurants usually stop sittings and service between 10 - midnight, and some of those clients move onto already busy bars and nightclubs, which close 1AM. It is that bar closing time that is the main issue - people are still active, especially on warm summer nights, they are hungry, boisterous and have some energy to burn.

When hundreds of people are forcibly moved onto the streets by bar closing times, and are forced to find food and entertainment out of one or two late night outlets, it is no small wonder problems occur - and the answer from Mayor Fortin seems to be, 'let's apply more restrictions'.

My answer would be: don't fight this, work with it.

1: Every night close Government St to traffic from say 7 pm to 3 am.
2: All along Gov. st, and in other key areas throughout downtown, have groups of street food vendors. Lot's of them - with a variety of choices. Let them operate from 10pm to 2am, and space them out so when crowds appear at closing time, you don't get one large congregation - they disperse over blocks.
3: Between 7pm and say midnight - allow mobile market stalls (arts and crafts, jewelry, whatever) and entertainment. That would attract more families and locals into the core - and balance the bar/restaurant crowd.
4: Stall license fees should reflect the fact they do not pay property tax (competition with restaurants and shops) - and a levy should be set to provide for cleanup and policing. Allow, and encourage, restaurants to have their own branded stall near their entrance (just thought of that!)
5: Create a Corps of highly visible, uniformed and trained community liason officers - not police, but essentially friendly eyes on the street. Have the police train them, with Tourism Victoria and the DVBA/DRA, and associate say each group of 2 or 3 community officers with auxiliary police from Vic, Saanich etc. (pay for most of this out the stall vendor levy)

This would encourage a far more diverse crowd into the downtown core into the later evening, largely solve the problem of large numbers congregating around the few late night eateries, and the social dynamic would have a mitigating effect on group behaviour.

The other postiives - more clients for downtown businesses. New opportunities for established businesses and food vendors, a social/street environment for locals and tourists - and it would rip apart the correct perception that downtown Victoria is largely dead and boring after 10pm.

That would be a Vibrant Downtown.

[aastra]

Great ideas.

[G-Man]

Since we are part of Vibrant Victoriawe should be allowed to make a nomination to the taskforce and well Mat, put me down to have you as our nomination. Awesome ideas!! Send them to the Mayor today!

[victorian fan]

I heard talk of the police wanting to bring back a few mounted officers. Perhaps a downtown night patrol would help. I have heard of how the mere presence of a horse can calm a crowd down.
.

[yodsaker]

Good ideas, Mat.
But far too proactive and creative for Victoria.

[mat]

Some ideas here are interesting -

Victorian Fan - I have not heard the police wishing to bring back mounted patrols, but it is a great idea. The UK Met police have proven in numerous studies and actual action that well trained and carefully deployed mounted officers have A: a calming, resolution, effect on group behaviour
B: are an attraction in themselves.

G-Man - VV gets attention from local media, but also within political and development spheres. While there maybe only 8-15 members active online at any particular time, there are an average of 25-30 lurkers - people simply viewing. Track some of those IP's - some are from the TC and City Hall. This forum and website is read outside of the membership. Question is influence...moot.

Whether it's discussing Mayor Fortin's concepts for a Vibrant Downtown, or the myriad other issues on this forum we contribute simply by not only allowing, but encouraging, debate. I personally don't agree with half the shared wisdom - but love the info, and the mental agility required to go from one issue to the next.

What we should be able to do through technology is share a post or thread easily - a one button push system to send the details to a set email, or other social network (kind of like the 'add this' concept) That way, instead of posting,

Send them to the Mayor today!

- the system would allow that.

Yes - maybe a VV supported member should be on the task force

[VicHockeyFan]

A 30-something page report has been released.

Main emphasis is more transport options, like transit and dedicated cab p/u areas with marshalls.

Recommendation that every bar be part of Bar-watch.

Stricter enforcement by police and liquor inspectors on establishments.

No increased business licenses, fees or minimum drink prices.

Encouragement of more late-night events without alcohol.

[rjag]

A dedicated cab p/u areas with marshalls.

I'll take some credit for that idea. I was part of a group that prepared submissions from the GVCC and this was a primary suggestion

It was suggested that perhaps 3 central cab areas in the downtown core on Friday and Saturday nights between 9p.m. and 3a.m. Cabs wouldnt be allowed to p/u in the core except at these central points unless they were booked. Bit more monitoring and better crowd control.....or then again it may be a focal point for trouble, but unless something is tried.....

[sebberry]

Recommendation that every bar be part of Bar-watch.

Does that include all the pubs too? Technically a bar is a place within a nightclub or pub.

[VicHockeyFan]

Does that include all the pubs too? Technically a bar is a place within a nightclub or pub.

Every liquor-primary license-holder. Anywhere that is 19+ only.