3426 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

“It would be easier to traffic narcotics here than it is to do a tourism business.”

Go City of Victoria, go.

Operators, city building a busload of animosity
CAROLYN HEIMAN
The story has been embellished in the retelling. A version told to me went like this: While walking downtown, Victoria Mayor Alan Lowe observed a tour bus parked where the city says it shouldn’t. Lowe told the driver to move on.

The driver was said to retort: “Who the hell are you?”

Lowe says it didn’t quite happen that way. But, while the words exchanged are in debate, what’s not disputed is the collision path between the Big Bus tour operators and the city.

The details of bristling on both sides are long, involving much ‘he said, but he said’ in the telling.

Without intending to oversimplify the situation, the two sides are battling over what are acceptable places for the new service to stop and pick up passengers. Damian Kruz, a Big Bus partner, is using more than 20 stops along a route, including some marked commercial truck-loading and a couple of lowtraffic B.C. Transit stops. Most other stops are hotel passenger zones and not in dispute. The city, however, says “No way” to stopping in commercial loading areas and has issued upward of 40 tickets, many related to stopping but including other infractions related to handing out brochures and improper use of a sandwich board. Most of them, it should be added, stem from complaints made by competitors.

As it now stands, there’s enough acrimony to fill a spot on a FOX TV relationship reality show. The city’s ready to pull the Big Bus operating licence, and Big Bus is ready to see the city in court, arguing the definition of what kind of vehicle can stop in a loading zone includes a bus. One side says the rules need to be obeyed; the other says they’re not clear.

There seems to be no issue with the service. To see what it was like, I tried it on a recent sunny afternoon and found it to be as billed. Happy tourists got on and off at various stops — taking just a few seconds in the process — and learned about historic and commercial points of interest while on board.

My seatmate from Washington, D.C., bought a ticket to case out which parts of the city she wanted to return to, and made note of brewpubs along the way, as her husband was part of a convention of home brewers. A Maryland couple skipped off the bus to walk back to town along the West Song Walkway, another feature recommended along the journey.

It was the kind of service I’d use as a tourist, and it’s similar to but includes more stops than another recently approved by the city, but for the exclusive use of cruise ship passengers. Other companies have contemplated the jump-on, jump-off service in Victoria, but Big Bus owners, who also operate in Vancouver, beat them to the draw and they’ve since backed off.

While the city is battling Big Bus, a larger issue is revving in the background. It concerns how many buses can be downtown without it losing its iconic postcard beauty. It’s not uncommon to see six coaches and minicoaches parked between Humboldt and Belleville on Government. A paramount issue — just from observation — is that many of them are half-full.

John Wilson, of Wilson Transport, wants to join the fray with a mini-coach tour service, but even he thinks the city has reached a point it will have to regulate the number of buses in the downtown core. “I can’t believe that I’m saying that,” he adds, hoping not to affect his business interests.

The trick will be how to do that while being fair, encouraging innovation and good service.

Existing rules — originally set to be fair to operators — are outdated in the new world of busing that has seen more buses but fewer operators. Gray Line West, a division of Rocky Mountainteer Vacations, has bought smaller companies and, as a result, control six of the eight assigned curbside spots where the city allows customers to be picked up.

Few quibble with Gray Line or its service, termed “first class” even by its competitors. But the scope of its operation has left no wiggle room for other operators, including Big Bus, which got a licence from the city but no stops to do business and a lot of grief when it tries to stop. The grief started, according to city documents, when Gray Line lobbed the first complaint. It kinda makes one wonder.

A Gray Line spokesman said they welcome competition but want the playing field to be equal.

In the end, Kruz says, they want to find an amicable way to do business in the city. But he adds in frustration: “It would be easier to traffic narcotics here than it is to do a tourism business.”

Carolyn Heiman writes a column Thursday in the Times Colonist. She can be reached at mailto:cheiman@tc.canwest.com

[Ms. B. Havin]

I wouldn't mind the buses (any of them, including the "olde England" double-decker ones) if their emissions weren't 1930s-style, filthy blue-black fumes. How difficult is it to retrofit these things so they have proper catalytic converters, burn cleaner, and don't pollute? Why -- WHY! -- are we obsessed with banning all outdoor smoking, yet let these operators off the hook even as they poison each and every one of us?

[VicHockeyFan]

Why does it need to be regulated at all?

John Wilson, of Wilson Transport, wants to join the fray with a mini-coach tour service, but even he thinks the city has reached a point it will have to regulate the number of buses in the downtown core. “I can’t believe that I’m saying that,” he adds, hoping not to affect his business interests.

If they stop for less than 5 minutes, who cares if they use a loading zone. They are a tiny percentage of downtown traffic.

[VicHockeyFan]

Monday Mag has a similar article, but their website is down.

[m0nkyman]

Don't regulate them to stifle competition, but definitely raise standards on the emissions so that their costs go up enough that a half empty diesel spewing behemoth isn't profitable to run in the core of the tourism district.

[Holden West]

Each one of those buses is like a roving Soviet coal plant. That Big Bus is 35 bucks for an hour and a half tour. Yikes.

[Mike K.]

Big Bus operators summoned to hearing
TC staff
Victoria has summoned the owners of Big Bus Ltd. to a hearing next Thursday to consider if the tour bus operator should have its business licence removed.

The city is considering revoking the licence because of alleged bylaw infractions related to handing out brochures, how advertising sandwich boards are used, and where the buses are stopping along the 24-stop route. The hearing is set for 7:30 p.m. Big Bus Ltd. started operating in the city this spring, patterning its jump-on and jump-off service after one it runs in Vancouver.

It has amassed more than 40 tickets related to bylaw infractions after others in the tourist industry, including its competitor Gray Line West, filed complaints with the city. —

[Ms. B. Havin]

And finally, on the topic of downtown, people, visitors, ...vibrancy:

So You Know: Former Winnipeg Mayor Glen Murray is the guest speaker for the Downtown Victoria Business Association's AGM June 26 at the Laurel Point Inn. His topic centres on the essential role downtowns play in making vital cities. The DVBA will also be electing six new members to the board. For information, go to http://www.downtownvictoria.ca

That's from Darron Kloster's column today (also in the "Biz" section), which also includes a whole bunch of other interesting tidbits. See [url=http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/business/story.html?id=05150b23-6c67-4b81-90ed-df9de00f3adf:df5ba]Shepherd fills Fort book gap[/url:df5ba].

Just to follow up on that: today's T-C reports on the upcoming event:

[url=http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/capital_van_isl/story.html?id=9fb6ea8d-7a83-4b06-bf50-bc3c6362d495:df5ba]Former big city mayors' leader to speak Tuesday[/url:df5ba]

Times Colonist
Published: Sunday, June 24, 2007

Winnipeg's former mayor will speak to the annual general meeting of the Downtown Victoria Business Association about the role of downtown in creating dynamic cities.

Glen Murray was Winnipeg's mayor from 1998 to 2004, during which he championed funding issues facing Canada's cities. He was the chairman of the Big City Mayors Caucus in 2002 which arose out of his vision for a New Deal for Cities. That evolved into a coalition of five Canadian cities.

Murray, who was the first openly gay mayor of a large North American city, now lives in Toronto and lectures on building culturally vibrant urban centres.

He speaks Tuesday at 11:45 a.m. in the Laurel Point Inn. The cost including lunch is $35. Membership in the DVBA is not necessary for attendance. For tickets call 386-2238.

© Times Colonist (Victoria) 2007

[LJ]

Winnipeg's former mayor will speak to the annual general meeting of the Downtown Victoria Business Association about the role of downtown in creating dynamic cities.



Have you ever been to Winnipeg?? If you were looking in a thesaurus under antonyms and looked for dynamic city you would see Winnipeg listed.

The place is an absolute dump. Good news though - you can buy a house right downtown for next to nothing.

[VicHockeyFan]

Winnipeg's former mayor will speak to the annual general meeting of the Downtown Victoria Business Association about the role of downtown in creating dynamic cities.



Have you ever been to Winnipeg?? If you were looking in a thesaurus under antonyms and looked for dynamic city you would see Winnipeg listed.

The place is an absolute dump. Good news though - you can buy a house right downtown for next to nothing.

Ya, I think this was addressed earlier.

Whatever.

[aastra]

From TripAdvisor.com:

Well where do I start. This city is perfect for people that like to shop in touristy overpriced shops and eat decent food . After coming from Vancouver through Horseshoe bay on the ferry for 1.5 hours then driving another 1.5 hours, through industrial, warehouse type communities that were mostly very unattractive, we expected to be blown away with the city.

Unlike, say Solvang, CA., where the entire city is authentic and truly picturesque, Victoria was far from that. Besides the extremely touristy area right by the ferry port, its like any regular city except , I must admit it has the most beautiful flowers EVERYWHERE.

We ate at Nautica Nellie's on Wharf st. The painkiller drink was good as well as the "tasting in a box." The museum seem lacking so we headed to the famed castle. Although pretty, believe me skip it. After returning from Europe and living in Washington, DC, I guess we are spoiled re museums and castles. We left early and took the scenic route to Swartz Bay ferry terminal. It a was pretty drive, sadly it was not enough of a redeeming factor.

We arrived at Swartz Bay at 7pm and knew that we missed the 7pm trip, but FYI on sat they don't have an 8pm trip. The next one was 9pm. UUUGGGGHHHH. 2 hours of waiting. No problem, we thought, we will have drinks and something to eat. We were sadly disappointed again, adding insult to injury, as they have only one small snack bar and they were sold out of cheese pizza the only vegetarian option, nor was there a bar. Lucky, the ferry company sometimes adds additional trips if scheduled ones fill up, so we got on the 8pm.

NOTE: if you do travel to Victoria, take the Vancouver - Victoria (Tsawwassen-Swartz Bay) ferry. DO NOT take the horseshoe bay ferry to Victoria. You will have to drive about 1.5 hours to get to Victoria once you land. BELIEVE me, it's better to drive through Vancouver to the Tsawwassen ferry port just outside of Vancouver. That way you land in Swatz Bay and TAKE THE SCENIC ROUTE into Victoria.

I think this writer deserves some kind of award for the most ridiculous comparison ever made between Victoria and another place: Solvang, California. And the claim that Solvang is "authentic" also deserves some special commendation, don't you think?



This is one of those inexplicably bitter sort of reviews that make you wonder if somebody on the street insulted them or something. So the entire coast/south island region has nothing going for it except flowers? The RBCM "seemed lacking," because the writer is "spoiled re: museums and castles." Hmm. If the writer is from Washington, DC then why would Victoria (you know, a city on an island in the north Pacific) seem "like any regular city"?

It seems like a semi-regular thing on TripAdvisor.com, these very harsh reviews in which the claim is made that Greater Victoria is some sort of gritty industrial zone. On the one hand the writer is correct, the roadside scenery in suburban Victoria and other communities on the island is standard issue crap. But on the other hand, it could be a helluva lot worse, as anybody who's been anywhere would surely realize. Industrial? Give me a break.

Methinks this is one of those instances in which an "establishing shot" of Victoria (typically absent from official tourism publications) would have come in handy re: setting the tourist's expectations. You're not going to expect a faux Danish village after seeing pics like the following:

[aastra]

Excerpts from another review (of the Coast Harbourside) at TripAdvisor.com:

The seaplanes and ferries are fun to watch for the first day, but when they wake you up at 6am they are less entertaining. They take off and land every 20mins! Having just stayed in Vancouver and other cities we did not mind a bit of noise, but the seaplanes are so loud and the ferries blow their horns just as they are level with the hotel!

...The best thing about Victoria was the whale watching, we booked with Eagle Wing Tours, a super fast boat and we saw lots of whales and seals!

The hotels in Victoria really need to deal with this noise issue, I think. It's such a common complaint. Can the city make soundproof windows mandatory?

Then again, here's an excerpt of a review of the Marriott:

There is construction all around the hotel but it does not bother and the noise is not even noticed in the room.

[aastra]

More excerpts from reviews at TripAdvisor.com. These are from two different reviews of the Magnolia Hotel:

...the view of the rooftops of adjacent buildings from our diamond level room was frankly not worth the extra money.

This room advertised "stunning views of the harbour or downtown". Our room had a great view of the building next door and a parking lot - very disapointing. I understand that, given its location, not all rooms can have great views but they should not advertise their rooms the way they do.

Don't these silly tourists know they came to Victoria to get away from tall buildings?? The way they complain, you'd think they want tall buildings (tall hotels, at least)! I mean, what kind of crazy tourist would actually put up money to enjoy a nice view? Okay, these two would. But others??

[m0nkyman]

That image rocks!!!

[Holden West]

Wot? Our castles aren't as good as the ones in Europe? How did this happen?

Solvang, Ca.....

[gumgum]

I've stayed in a few of the inner harbour and the noise isn't a problem. And I'm a light sleeper. Sure you can hear them, but it's kind of a nice sound that's mostly a soft rumble...well, we've all heard them.

[Holden West]

Between your snoring and your cold feet, seaplanes are the least of my worries.

[gumgum]

^Shhh...that weekend was supposed to be a secret between just the two of us!

[aastra]

Interesting review from TripAdvisor.com:

...This accommodation was absolutely ideal for our stay in Victoria. We...were very pleased to have found somewhere so convenient for the Inner Harbour, restaurants, shops etc. The apartment we stayed in was ‘The Metro Suite’...on the 5th floor with a small balcony. The suite is in a smart high rise building. Entry to the building is very secure. A bonus was the use of a pool table and fitness room located on the ground floor. There was some traffic noise but by and large this is inevitable in Victoria if you want such a convenient location...

smart high rise building = Astoria

It makes me wonder if the population of downtown is increasing significantly after all. Anybody care to guess what percentage of the new condo units will actually be used for vacation rentals? I see one website has 10 (!) different units available in Corazon.

[VicHockeyFan]

Interesting review from TripAdvisor.com:

...This accommodation was absolutely ideal for our stay in Victoria. We...were very pleased to have found somewhere so convenient for the Inner Harbour, restaurants, shops etc. The apartment we stayed in was ‘The Metro Suite’...on the 5th floor with a small balcony. The suite is in a smart high rise building. Entry to the building is very secure. A bonus was the use of a pool table and fitness room located on the ground floor. There was some traffic noise but by and large this is inevitable in Victoria if you want such a convenient location...

smart high rise building = Astoria

It makes me wonder if the population of downtown is increasing significantly after all. Anybody care to guess what percentage of the new condo units will actually be used for vacation rentals? I see one website has 10 (!) different units available in Corazon.

Platinum Accomodations. Funny they don't give any rates. The least they could do is pull an Asfar and say from $xxx