1672 replies to this topic

[Nparker]

Kelowna is...less allergic to height than the folks over here, maybe it's because their mountains are taller...

My take: Kelowna is trying to be something more than it was, and Victoria is struggling against all it can be.

[RFS]

My take: Kelowna is trying to be something more than it was, and Victoria is struggling against all it can be.

eh, I'd say you are half right.    Kelowna is the "primary" city of the Okanagan which is around 360,000 people so I would say it is becoming exactly what it SHOULD be whereas for whatever reason, politically or otherwise, Victoria tries to be less than it should be.

I am talking strictly about building height of course.  In other ways Victoria does aim high and does really well, like in terms of restaurants and bars

[jonny]

It is interesting they're [Kelowna] less allergic to height than the folks over here, maybe it's because their mountains are taller...

 

I have a number of theories about this. It's some combination of:

- The whole Victoria is not Vancouver thing

- A lot of people in Victoria chose to move to Victoria because it's not a big city

- Old people who moved here view us as the same small town they moved to in 1975. 

- Buildings are already short here. From street level a 15 floor building feels really, really tall compared to the parking lot that was there before. 

- The whole ye-olde-Victoria nonsense.

- There isn't a long history of people wanting to live in condos in downtown Victoria or Vic West. This is sort of a new thing here. 

- This view that downtown Victoria is precious. The natural tendency seems to be to view any change as automatically harming downtown Victoria. 

- Tall buildings are for those horrible wealthy people. 

- More liberal or left-wing places seem to abhor tall buildings, in general. 

[Jackerbie]

Kelowna is starting to look weird with these recent high-rises coming up with low density around them. Given real estate there has been pretty expensive for a while now, they should try raising the floor (literally) in the vicinity. It is interesting they're less allergic to height than the folks over here, maybe it's because their mountains are taller...

 

Kelowna Council is less allergic to height. The general public is no different than Victoria, really. The big difference in Kelowna is that most of these tall buildings are out by Prospera Place in an old industrial area. They're not affecting anyone's views, they're not generating any more traffic in existing residential neighbourhoods, etc. Westcorp's hotel tower is in downtown Kelowna and it faced a lot of public opposition, but was given unanimous support by Council I believe.

[Mike K.]

So while Kelowna plugs along, why can’t Nanaimo build anything? The number of major proposals that came and went for nanaimo is pretty staggering.

[Kapten Kapsell]

Nanaimo’s downtown is in serious trouble; some people from our region complain about downtown Victoria, but it is truly vibrant compared to Nanaimo’s urban core.

[Jackerbie]

So while Kelowna plugs along, why can’t Nanaimo build anything? The number of major proposals that came and went for nanaimo is pretty staggering.

 

Nanaimo has a dysfunctional Council, and is full to the brim with BANANAs* and CAVE** people

 

*Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything

**Citizens Against Virtually Everything

[RFS]

So while Kelowna plugs along, why can’t Nanaimo build anything? The number of major proposals that came and went for nanaimo is pretty staggering.

My point is that Kelowna is more comparable to Victoria than Nanaimo

[Mike K.]

But Nanaimo approves mega projects only to see them cancelled by developers.

Multiple highrise towers, including a new tallest for the Island that would have surpassed the current tallest on the Island, all fizzle out before a single shovel hits the ground.

In fact the only large scale project that completed over the last decade was a restart of a highrise that stopped mid-way and sat as an empty concrete shell smack along the middle of the downtown waterfront.

And there’s no shortage in demand for housing in Nanaimo which together with its suburbs isn’t a small town. It’s all quite bizarre.

[tjv]

So while Kelowna plugs along, why can’t Nanaimo build anything? The number of major proposals that came and went for nanaimo is pretty staggering.

Frank Ney pushed heavily for urban sprawl and that's why there are lots of malls scattered throughout Nanaimo.  Frankly I am not sure why people would want to live in a high rise when housing is still cheap in Nanaimo overall compared to the cost of a unit in a new high rise

 

And generally comparing Nanaimo to Victoria is like comparing Victoria to Vancouver

[Mike K.]

Nanaimo’s real-estate is far from cheap. You’re looking at costs that are not drastically below Victoria’s average neighbourhoods. Last time I looked I was utterly shocked at how fast real-estate prices appreciated there. Now that being said, Nanaimo still suffers from the stench of mills and that’s always going to be a factor for much of the area.

[lanforod]

I'm in Kelowna right now. For a city roughly the same population as the CRD, it seems so much bigger.

Edited by lanforod, 05 July 2018 - 07:19 PM.

[Nparker]

I'm in Kelowna right now. For a city roughly the same population as the CRD, it seems so much bigger.

According to 2016 census data, the Kelowna (CMA) population was 194,882. That's quite a bit less than the CRD at 367,770 for the same time period.

 

And speaking of things that aren't as large as one imagines them to be (and to get this back on topic), as I walked past the site today, I was surprised to see that the footprint for HP1 appears relatively small. I suppose it will be a moderately slim tower.

[RFS]

I'm in Kelowna right now. For a city roughly the same population as the CRD, it seems so much bigger.

I've had friends from other provinces who had visited both cities, and were convinced kelowna was a bigger city than vic

[lanforod]

Oh, I misread RFS earlier where he said 360k; but he meant the entire Okanagan. Makes sense.

 

I'm not really surprised though that Kelowna feels bigger. Regional centres tend to do that. Lethbridge feels big too, being a regional centre.

Victoria isn't a regional centre to anything other than the CRD itself.

 

Passing the Kelowna airport, there was a double decker passenger plane on the runway. Somehow I doubt we'll ever see those in Victoria (not sure if it was a 747).

Edited by lanforod, 05 July 2018 - 07:45 PM.

[aastra]

Folks, anyone who wants to claim that Kelowna seems bigger than Kamloops is going to have his hands full. As of yet Kelowna still has a very long way to go before it can reasonably be compared to any of the established Canadian CMAs. It's a 21st-century CMA, so it lacks pretty much everything that the established CMAs all have: large built-up downtown core, historic commercial district, large existing or former department store buildings, large institutional buildings, large/old churches and cathedrals, dense central neighbourhoods, heavy public transit...

 

Put it this way, if you were to take a handful of downtown Victoria's large buildings and drop them into downtown Kelowna, a) you would run out of room fast, and b) it would be crazy how much legitimate urban energy and look & feel it would inject into the place. The Bay Centre would be a monster in downtown Kelowna, as would the HBC or 800 Yates or the 940 Blanshard complex. (Don't even get me started on the RBCM or the Empress Hotel.) Try pasting the View Street parkade, Yates Street parkade, Johnson Street parkade, Broughton Street parkade, Centennial Square parkade, and the old Bay parkade into downtown Kelowna. It would be transformed into the city of parkades.

 

This is no knock against Kelowna. I like it and I like what it's doing, although I still wish it would step back a bit from the towers-for-foreign-buyers thing and start working on a solid lowrise & midrise base to its downtown area.

Edited by aastra, 05 July 2018 - 09:00 PM.

[Bingo]

Kelowna is much bigger with it's newish 3,478 ft bridge with 5 lanes of traffic, and built in just three years.

Victoria doesn't have one of those.

[RFS]

Kelowna is much bigger with it's newish 3,478 ft bridge with 5 lanes of traffic, and built in just three years.

Victoria doesn't have one of those.

Actually, I think their "real" bridge does go a long way to making it look like a big city.  That and the rolling hills with visible sprawl

[tjv]

^and Victoria needs a 3478 ft bridge?  Since Vancouver doesn't have a bridge that long, Kelowna is bigger too? 

 

Nanaimo’s real-estate is far from cheap. You’re looking at costs that are not drastically below Victoria’s average neighbourhoods. Last time I looked I was utterly shocked at how fast real-estate prices appreciated there. Now that being said, Nanaimo still suffers from the stench of mills and that’s always going to be a factor for much of the area.

a quick check, Nanaimo is roughly half the price of Victoria generally speaking.  Just like Victoria is cheap compared to Vancouver, move here from Van and put a few million in the bank after buying the same house

[RFS]

^and Victoria needs a 3478 ft bridge?  

 

 

Yes we do, from Admirals walk area across to Colwood as I believe Mike K. has suggested before