324 replies to this topic

[mysage]

This thread appears to have become a personal vendetta for certain individuals against Len Barrie.
Regardless of how it comes out in the wash and whether you like it or not, this project has created homes for thousands, jobs for thousands and has had a significant impact on our local economy. Its also contributed to the beautification of a municipality that was the laughing stock of the rest of Victoria.
Because it appears to have been hijacked by one person, I and others have limited or stopped commenting on it as there is no room for debate or discussion anymore due to the tunnel vision of this one person.

Well said.

Moderators take note (and particularly note rjags join date). He has been on this site for some time and speaks for many of us when we state that we are fed up with the rhetoric passed off as news here. Len Barrie no longer owns or controls Bear Mountain. Who cares about him? I would suggest that this thread be limited to Bear Mountain, its current principles (HSBC et al) and anything that is going on there now. If VV thinks that Len Barrie deserves his own sepearate thread where he can be maligned feel free to start one.

[Mike K.]

This is a thread on the Bear Mountain insolvency. Any topic or anyone related to that insolvency is discussed in this thread, regardless of an individuals present-day involvement with the project.

To discuss the project itself, including construction and development of future phases or discuss existing buildings, please refer to the dedicated project thread under the Projects and Construction sub-section of the forum here.

[mysage]

MikeK
As usual you skirt the main issue of allowing people to use this board to pursue their own personal and political vendettas.

Following your own guidlines you should have deleted/moved Bearnards most recent post. His post was one of the most reasoned and intelligent posts to be displayed in some time and yet according to what you have just said this thread is to do with Bear Mountains insolvency and his post had nothing to contribute along those lines.

The problem you are facing is that there is a groundswell of intelligent posters who wish to contribute but are becoming increasingly frustrated with VV allowing the usual suspects to hijack this thread. As I have mentioned in earlier posts, in my opinion, VV will soon become a irrelevant forum as far as developments are concerned because what thinking person is going to put up with this. VV needs to find a way to apply a more even handed approach to what is acceptable.

[gumgum]

^If you don't like it then just move along. Nobody's forcing you to be here.

Presently the technology exists where you can start your own forum where you can call the shots.

[mysage]

Really? That's your answer? I have suggestion, why don't you enter this debate with a counter argument and then we can all benefit?

[gumgum]

I thought I was offering a solution that would benefit everyone.
I don't represent the forum. I am only offering my own suggestion.

[Zoe]

I started this thread at the suggestion of the moderators, when Bear Mountain's financial and legal issues started to overwhelm the construction thread. I thought it was a great idea, especially now with all the information that's publicly available about BM's lawsuits and financial problems. Potential investors and creditors have a right to know about these issues before they put their money into something that may not be viable. Those who are trying to shut down the discussion (and shut me up) are trying to protect their own vested interests. But the truth is out there. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

[rjag]

This is a thread on the Bear Mountain insolvency. Any topic or anyone related to that insolvency is discussed in this thread, regardless of an individuals present-day involvement with the project.

To discuss the project itself, including construction and development of future phases or discuss existing buildings, please refer to the dedicated project thread under the Projects and Construction sub-section of the forum here.

I agree Mike & to requote what you just wrote

Bear Mountain insolvency.

This is not a thread about the trials and tribulations of Len Barrie but of everything that is happening around this massive development, including lawsuits & receiverships, whats happening with the current construction in light of the insolvency proceedings, what role HSBC is playing in restructuring, what other financiers are getting involved with any stalled projects regarding the insolvency, in other words whats happening with the development and what problems are arising as a result of the insolvency.

I'm not seeing that, all I see is someone trying to dance on another persons grave.

Oh and for the record, I have no past or current interest financial or otherwise in Bear Mountain, I dont even know anyone that lives there.

I think folks are entitled to a bit of latitude when it comes to opinions within VV discussions but this is becoming a bit obsessive with no obvious outcome except the besmirching of another persons name.

[jklymak]

^ Libeling someone is one thing and should not be tolerated. Republishing public court documents should be fine.

The relevance is that Barrie is insolvent because he made a lot of financial deals that were suspect, and thus now the subject of various court proceedings.

One would hope that the honest development community would be pleased to see justice meted out to any dishonest developers. The mess resulting from Bear Mountain would surely put caution in the mind of anyone investing in other such high-flying schemes. It seems a service to make sure none of it is swept under the rug. Of course if its all baseless, one hopes that comes to light too.

[rjag]

^ Libeling someone is one thing and should not be tolerated. Republishing public court documents should be fine.

The relevance is that Barrie is insolvent because he made a lot of financial deals that were suspect, and thus now the subject of various court proceedings.

One would hope that the honest development community would be pleased to see justice meted out to any dishonest developers. The mess resulting from Bear Mountain would surely put caution in the mind of anyone investing in other such high-flying schemes. It seems a service to make sure none of it is swept under the rug. Of course if its all baseless, one hopes that comes to light too.

I agree with your points, as long as what is being reported or discussed here closely resembles an effort at providing the whole story.

I'm sure we will discover many horror stories, as time goes on, what worries me most is that the homeowners up there arent caught in the middle.

[gumgum]

^I'm not sure how homeowners could be caught in the middle.

[jklymak]

I agree with your points, as long as what is being reported or discussed here closely resembles an effort at providing the whole story.

I think thats why respectful dialogue is encouraged. If Bear Mountain proponents have other sides to the Len Barrie or Bear Mountain story, they should present them. However, simply getting hostile with Zoe or other posters who don't like BM doesn't do their side of the story any justice.

[LJ]

[quote name='jklymak']^ Republishing public court documents should be fine.

quote]

I will agree with that, but I don't think there has been much of that taking place.

There has been lots of posting of unsubstantiated rumours, inflamatory comments attached to links that provide no evidence of those comments, quotes from anonymous people with no knowledge of the situation who purport to talk for "everyone", etc.

Some by the very person that states that only he/she speaks the truth and all others are just protecting vested interests. The very person that had to apologise for publishing lies.

[rjag]

^I'm not sure how homeowners could be caught in the middle.

You know, the usual issues that can arise from large scale new developments such as improper drainage in 'common' areas or survey mistakes, subsidence from unfinished or exposed areas affecting foundations etc. If something major happens such as this they cant go after HSBC or Bear Mountain 2011 if the error was caused prior to insolvency.

For example we bought our first home in 1991 in a new townhouse complex on Interurban rd. The builder declared bankruptcy just as we were closing. Luckily our Lawyer had withheld 5% for proof of finishing to the owners satisfaction. We were able to finish the work with the receivers help i.e. paint blemishes, improperly hung doors etc with the holdback and once complete we paid the balance to the receiver.

So something on a grander scale may have issues that affect homeowners.

[spanky123]

One would hope that the honest development community would be pleased to see justice meted out to any dishonest developers. The mess resulting from Bear Mountain would surely put caution in the mind of anyone investing in other such high-flying schemes. It seems a service to make sure none of it is swept under the rug. Of course if its all baseless, one hopes that comes to light too.

I think that most of the development community were open and honest with their opinions about BM and Len Barrie. I don't think that too many developers want to see any failed development negatively impact their image as a group.

The people who stand to lose the most are the accountants, lawyers, realtors, marketers and consultants who float the crap we see around the region. They make money whether a project succeeds or fails and have a vested interest in keeping the taps running and the naive in the dark. All you need to do is pull the covers back on a few of the shams over the years and you will see the same names coming up time and time again.

The one morsel of sympathy I have for guys like Len Barrie is that they get the blame and take the hit, while the co-culprits get to slither away into the dark.

[mysage]

I started this thread at the suggestion of the moderators, when Bear Mountain's financial and legal issues started to overwhelm the construction thread. I thought it was a great idea, especially now with all the information that's publicly available about BM's lawsuits and financial problems. Potential investors and creditors have a right to know about these issues before they put their money into something that may not be viable. Those who are trying to shut down the discussion (and shut me up) are trying to protect their own vested interests. But the truth is out there. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Tracy,

I agree this thread was started about BMs financial and legal issues and if you feel the need to publish FACTS (ie court documents etc) then go ahead. Just spare us the sanctimonius statments that "potential investors and creditors have a "right to know". Surely you aren't suggesting that anyone who has the financial accume to be involved with Bear Mountain hasn't done their own research and are relying on you for some advice.

As for trying to "shut down this discussion (and shut me up)" please go back and read my posts. Your name isn't mentioned anywhere so why do you think it is about you? And on top of that all I have asked for is fairness from the Moderators in monitoring this thread so personal attacks, shrill rhetoric, innuendo passed off as fact and outright lies are eliminated (thus making for a more intelligent thread for all). Seems pretty reasonable to me don't you think?

[Zoe]

Since it's likely that none of us here are qualified in high finance, I've sent the documents Hyslop referenced to Gary Cowan (BM's new CEO) to get his comments. Hopefully he will respond and shed some light on the plan to buy back BM, the wind-power scheme, and the $300-million loan backed by a life-insurance policy. I'll post any responses here.

If Bear Mountain proponents have other sides to the Len Barrie or Bear Mountain story, they should present them.However, simply getting hostile with Zoe or other posters who don't like BM doesn't do their side of the story any justice.

I think they've already answered that question, and the answer is: No, all they can do is try and shoot the messenger.

This message is hidden because mysage is on your ignore list.

Mysage, you're not talking smack about me again, are you? How's that working out for you? I've heard it all before, only with better spelling and grammar.

[mysage]

Since it's likely that none of us here are qualified in high finance, I've sent the documents Hyslop referenced to Gary Cowan (BM's new CEO) to get his comments. Hopefully he will respond and shed some light on the plan to buy back BM, the wind-power scheme, and the $300-million loan backed by a life-insurance policy. I'll post any responses here.
Surely you don't think that Gary Cowan has any knowledge of Len Barries private schemes do you? Somehow, given that he is running Len Barries old company I doubt that they are the best of friends. I also doubt that he would share information with you on any plans to buy back BM but I await your usual accurate report.



I think they've already answered that question, and the answer is: No, all they can do is try and shoot the messenger.


Mysage, you're not talking smack about me again, are you? How's that working out for you? I've heard it all before, only with better spelling and grammar.

I am sure that you have heard it all before. The attention is intoxicating isn't it?

[Zoe]

Gary Cowan (by way of his public relations staff, Kathi Springer) has "no comment" on Len's alleged plan to repurchase BM. I may give a call to one of the agents named in the documents to ask if they can shed any light.

[VicBooster]

The very person that had to apologise for publishing lies.

LJ stop it. Honestly both you and mysage have done more damage to this discussion than any other contributor. It is aggravating to read your repetitive insults directed at anyone who feels differently about the project or wants an alternative view of what is happening there. The moderators couldn't have said it any clearer for your type of responses to stop but you continue unabated.

You two destroy any chance for a meaningful conversation because you instantly jump over anyone who disagrees with your vision for Bear Mountain or your opinion on the insolvency.

The fact of the matter is VV's contributors reported issues at Bear Mountain days before the mainstream media dared to even investigate and the flow of news here has continued to stay several paces ahead of other outlets. The mess that has become Bear Mountain is a story that has yet gone untold and your constant meddling with any discussion here has become monotonous, bothersome and a disservice considering the fact Bear Mountain was one of the largest bank write offs in North America last year.

Lead by example and leave this board if both you and mysage feel that discussion on real-estate projects on VV are not to your liking. It will be a relief to read replies without sifting through unneessary and childish put downs.

And if you happen to be wondering why I quoted your comment about lies maybe you would like to take a minute to remember Len Barrie's promises of a Dubai bail out and flurry of other promises that were never backed up? The money is in the mail, right? Right.