Jump to content

      













Photo

BC Hydro - general discussion


  • Please log in to reply
498 replies to this topic

#1 VicHockeyFan

VicHockeyFan
  • Suspended User
  • 52,121 posts

Posted 18 June 2010 - 08:05 AM

B.C. Hydro offers choice with new smart meters

By Scott Simpson, Canwest News Service June 18, 2010

B.C. Hydro is making room for both technophiles and technophobes on the $930-million smart meter network it will introduce in 2012.

Hydro expects to recoup all of its investment within about eight years -- and then net about $500 million in subsequent savings -- even if its 1.8 million customers in British Columbia don't adopt the suite of new interactive features that the high-tech electricity meters can provide.


Read more: http://www.timescolo...l#ixzz0rDlyHL5R

To me this really is a no-brainer. I think it's long overdue. The remote read-out is a great idea, I know it will get people to conserve.

#2 victorian fan

victorian fan
  • Member
  • 1,923 posts

Posted 18 June 2010 - 09:20 AM

saving money that will eventually be passed back to customers.


I'll believe that when I see it.

#3 Bob Fugger

Bob Fugger

    Chief Factor

  • Member
  • 2,989 posts
  • LocationSouth Central CSV

Posted 18 June 2010 - 10:46 AM

We should have a new thread entitled, "Welcome to 2006," for BC Hydro, BC Ferries, other Crown corps (who shall remain nameless)... ;)

#4 VicHockeyFan

VicHockeyFan
  • Suspended User
  • 52,121 posts

Posted 18 June 2010 - 10:49 AM

We should have a new thread entitled, "Welcome to 2006," for BC Hydro, BC Ferries, other Crown corps (who shall remain nameless)... ;)


We could subtitle it:

Welcome to 2006!: Even monopolies catch up with the rest of the world eventually (of course only to be passed again).

What's next? City Hall selling its handy parking passes at outlets other than City Hall?

#5 sebberry

sebberry

    Resident Housekeeper

  • Moderator
  • 17,931 posts
  • LocationVictoria

Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:03 AM

Say hello to higher power bills!

Victoria current weather by neighbourhood: Victoria school-based weather station network

Victoria webcams: Big Wave Dave Webcams

 


#6 sebberry

sebberry

    Resident Housekeeper

  • Moderator
  • 17,931 posts
  • LocationVictoria

Posted 18 June 2010 - 12:51 PM

http://www.greenbiz....appliances-2015

Whirlpool is positioning itself to take advantage of the growing interest in Smart Grid technology with last week’s announcement that all of its electronically controlled appliances will be Smart Grid compatible by 2015.


Yes, this means BCH will have the capability to shut of the heater in your clothes dryer without you knowing it.

Victoria current weather by neighbourhood: Victoria school-based weather station network

Victoria webcams: Big Wave Dave Webcams

 


#7 VicHockeyFan

VicHockeyFan
  • Suspended User
  • 52,121 posts

Posted 18 June 2010 - 12:58 PM

http://www.greenbiz....appliances-2015



Yes, this means BCH will have the capability to shut of the heater in your clothes dryer without you knowing it.


Well, you get less wrinkles, less ironing if you let it cool down while tumbling. I wonder if I can get Hydro to turn off my TV if I fall asleep? I can't figure out the sleep feature on it by myself.

#8 sebberry

sebberry

    Resident Housekeeper

  • Moderator
  • 17,931 posts
  • LocationVictoria

Posted 18 June 2010 - 12:59 PM

The new system will report that information automatically, and will allow Hydro to supply power at a level very close to actual demand. Hydro expects it will be able to conserve power as a result, saving money that will eventually be passed back to customers.


More "We'll pass on the cost savings" BS.

Just do some searches on how much the people in Ontario are saving..

..5 min of googling later...

Nope, they're not saving anything, they're actually paying more.

Wait until BCH introduces peak usage time surcharges, then it gets even more fun.

Victoria current weather by neighbourhood: Victoria school-based weather station network

Victoria webcams: Big Wave Dave Webcams

 


#9 sebberry

sebberry

    Resident Housekeeper

  • Moderator
  • 17,931 posts
  • LocationVictoria

Posted 18 June 2010 - 01:00 PM

Well, you get less wrinkles, less ironing if you let it cool down while tumbling. I wonder if I can get Hydro to turn off my TV if I fall asleep? I can't figure out the sleep feature on it by myself.


Many new dryers already have an anti-wrinkle feature like that, doesn't take big brother at BCH to do it for you.

Victoria current weather by neighbourhood: Victoria school-based weather station network

Victoria webcams: Big Wave Dave Webcams

 


#10 sebberry

sebberry

    Resident Housekeeper

  • Moderator
  • 17,931 posts
  • LocationVictoria

Posted 28 April 2011 - 08:17 PM

Hmm.. we have no BC Hydro thread. Odd.

Anyway, did anyone else experience a brief power outage this morning (Thurs)? I was in the shower minding my own business and there was a noticeable power surge (lights got brighter) followed by a 10 second outage.

Victoria current weather by neighbourhood: Victoria school-based weather station network

Victoria webcams: Big Wave Dave Webcams

 


#11 sebberry

sebberry

    Resident Housekeeper

  • Moderator
  • 17,931 posts
  • LocationVictoria

Posted 12 May 2011 - 08:52 PM

Is it possible to buy a new TV that isn't hooked up to giant throbbing speakers? I fear this problem will grow in the years to come in apartments and condos.


Just wait until the new smart meters are in place and we move to a time of use billing system. Everyone will be doing laundry at 11pm to save a few pennies.

Victoria current weather by neighbourhood: Victoria school-based weather station network

Victoria webcams: Big Wave Dave Webcams

 


#12 Bernard

Bernard
  • Member
  • 4,241 posts
  • LocationVictoria BC

Posted 13 May 2011 - 06:20 AM

Just wait until the new smart meters are in place and we move to a time of use billing system. Everyone will be doing laundry at 11pm to save a few pennies.


Should we actually move to time based power rates, it will not be a few pennies difference. The big change will be that the peak hours, 5 pm to 7 pm, it will be a lot more, say 3 times as much as right now. At the same time the overnight right would be 10-20% of the current rate. A dishwasher run at 6 pm would likely cost 15 to 30 times as much then running it late at night. This works out to saving to about $100 a year. A clothes dryer would save about $250 in a year.

Even just getting power demands shifted out of the peak hours will make a huge difference to our system. Our electrical system is build to meet the largest possible demand and we rarely go over 70% with peaks to 80%, but we have to have that margin. When we do reach over 90%, the price of power goes through the roof for the utilities, I have seen spot rates as high was 500 times our standard rate. When we reach 95% some places can start to get brown outs.

Evening out power use will reduce the overall need for power in the system and means the need to build new power plants is removed. It also means that all the new green power, like the run of the river in BC, will actually be displacing coal fired power plants instead of just lowering the demand for new fossil fuel based power plants.

Currently the overnight rate for power, if one were allowed to buy it directly, is about in the range of 1 to 2 cents per KwH. There is a huge amount of power wasted every night because there is not enough demand and many power plants have to run at a minimum level 24/7 Our hydro dams can reduce power production, but the flow of water of the dam can not be turned off.

The smart meters will make a huge difference in being able to get more use of the power already produced. It will also save BC Hydro a lot of money very quickly. If we can sell power to the US and Alberta around dinner time, that power will bring in much higher rates than what we get now for sales. There is also a huge amount of power we can buy over night from those nukes in the US for a penny a KwH.

For the average consumer, a small shift in time for many power intensive uses will ensure that with a time based metering system there is no increase in costs. For the very frugal, it could mean savings of $500 to $1000 a year on power use, much more if you have electrical heat.

For myself, it will be cost effective for me to heat the house up early in the morning and then reduce the heaters during the day. At the moment I pay the same price no matter when my electrical heaters are on.

#13 Rob Randall

Rob Randall
  • Member
  • 8,855 posts

Posted 13 May 2011 - 06:56 AM

Thanks for that eye-opening post, Bernard. The cost and environmental benefits are obvious but a late night wash cycle would be annoying for your condo neighbour.

The Hudson's other energy benefit is their geo-thermal heating/cooling.

"[Randall's] aesthetic poll was more accurate than his political acumen"

-Tom Hawthorne, Toronto Globe and Mail


#14 sebberry

sebberry

    Resident Housekeeper

  • Moderator
  • 17,931 posts
  • LocationVictoria

Posted 13 May 2011 - 08:12 AM

Lots of good info there. I'm thinking maybe the mods can do their mod thing and move it (and this) to the BC Hydro Smart Meters thread? I'm pretty sure there is one.

My concern is while it all looks good and makes sense on paper, how will you actually get people to change their behaviors?

Your average family with 2.2 children and a dog are the ones who will be hit the hardest by the TOU billing rates. Their lives are 6am to 10 pm.

They can't change their entire schedules just to do laundry at midnight. If they need to run A/C because it is hot in their home, they can't simply switch to using it during off-peak hours. Why are they firing up the oven at 6:30pm? Because that's when everyone's home to eat dinner.

We have "peak usage hours" is because that's when the majority of the population is home to use their appliances. I agree that money is a motivating factor when it comes to how much of something to use (people buy curly lightbulbs, people buy smaller cars, etc..) but people still need to use it all at the same time.

It's also easy to say "switch to gas for heating and cooking". Sure, I'd love a gas range. I'd love a gas clothes dryer. And if I had a hot water tank it would be gas too. But with a large percentage of the population living in apartments where such a conversion isn't possible, there's no way to save money by switching energy sources.

But, if someone can show me where Ontario is using less energy as a result of TOU/Smart meters I might shut up.

Victoria current weather by neighbourhood: Victoria school-based weather station network

Victoria webcams: Big Wave Dave Webcams

 


#15 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 45,363 posts

Posted 13 May 2011 - 10:38 AM

Isn't BC Hydro implementing higher rates and time-based rates in order to export more electricity to the United States at higher prices than they can charge BC residents?

I heard somewhere that hydro's big money maker is California and they'll do just about anything to keep power flowing south while charging us more in order to conserve power locally and therefore allowing for even more export capacity.

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#16 sebberry

sebberry

    Resident Housekeeper

  • Moderator
  • 17,931 posts
  • LocationVictoria

Posted 25 May 2011 - 02:47 PM

I heard that BCH isn't actually going with a TOU billing system, but we all know what happens when we're told something won't happen.

Victoria current weather by neighbourhood: Victoria school-based weather station network

Victoria webcams: Big Wave Dave Webcams

 


#17 Sparky

Sparky

    GET OFF MY LAWN

  • Moderator
  • 10,155 posts

Posted 25 May 2011 - 04:09 PM

^ Good point Seb. Here is a something won't happen moment.

I missed this story a few weeks ago about the un privatization of BC Transmission Corp, but I will do some reading tonight.

SNAFU

http://thetyee.ca/Op...ralsOweApology/

#18 Bernard

Bernard
  • Member
  • 4,241 posts
  • LocationVictoria BC

Posted 25 May 2011 - 04:41 PM

^ Good point Seb. Here is a something won't happen moment.

I missed this story a few weeks ago about the un privatization of BC Transmission Corp, but I will do some reading tonight.

SNAFU

http://thetyee.ca/Op...ralsOweApology/


BC Transmission Corporation was another crown corporation. BC Hydro and BCTC never truly separated. BC Hydro has used their control over the transmission lines to stop the development of green power projects.

The division of transmission from generation was a very natural and smart division. Undoing this is a huge step backwards and will only cause us mondo problems in the future

#19 Sparky

Sparky

    GET OFF MY LAWN

  • Moderator
  • 10,155 posts

Posted 25 May 2011 - 07:58 PM

BC Transmission Corporation was another crown corporation. BC Hydro and BCTC never truly separated. BC Hydro has used their control over the transmission lines to stop the development of green power projects.

The division of transmission from generation was a very natural and smart division. Undoing this is a huge step backwards and will only cause us mondo problems in the future


Bernard, I have always enjoyed your posts. Please be specific regarding your comment "problems in the future."

The clearly unwashed have just pissed away $65 Million of our hard earned tax dollars only to take this backward step???

Help us understand.

Be specific,...there are only a few wires and they colour them for us.....

#20 Bernard

Bernard
  • Member
  • 4,241 posts
  • LocationVictoria BC

Posted 26 May 2011 - 06:34 AM

What it comes down to is that the transmission lines are like the highways and the generating capacity is like the mode of transportation. When one company owns both the ability to make the power and move the power and there is no mechanism to make either accountable to the public or anyone, problems will arise.

If BCTC were a completely neutral body that only was there to provide the infrastructure needed to move power, companies could have developed power projects here and sold the power to people almost anywhere in western North America. That degree of division between BC Hydro and BCTC never happened and BCTC was never truly autonomous.

As an example, because of BC Hydro not allowing access to the gird, a small lumber mill in a small town had to close because they could not build the congeneration plant they needed. They had a firm long term buyer for 100% of the power, but BC Hydro would not allow them access to the grid. The deal would have taken a large mine client away from BC Hydro.

BC Hydro is a behemoth that takes decades to catch up to where they need to be in the modern world. They were pushing the Duke Point gas fired power plant for years beyond the realization that greenhouse gases might be having an impact on things. They still run a natural gas plant in the lower mainland. They also own a huge thermal coal deposit that they have not struck from their books as an option for power. They have mega projects on the brain and can not shake that.

As long as BC Hydro controls the grid, they will build it to suit their old style mega project thinking and not the needs of BC of the Western Interconnection. Transmission line planning is like highway planning, it takes years to plan and build what you need.

In many places in the US and Europe and Canada people produce their own power and sell the excess back to the utility. In BC this is illegal. If you power your home with solar photovoltaic you can not be connected to the gird. BC Hydro claims this is because technical it will not work to allow for many small producers to connect to the grid, though oddly enough it works in places like Idaho, but then everyone knows that potato growers know more about the electrical grid than we do in BC.

Personally, if I were in control, I would keep the grid in public hands but sell all the generating capacity and allow a free market in sales of power to the public. The public could choose who they buy power from and sell power into the grid. The province would get a lot of cash to pay off some of our debts and collect more in taxes than they ever get from BC Hydro now.

I know of course this will never happen because the public in BC have an irrational connection to public ownership to the means of power production. Apparently the natural gas network is ok to be in private hands, same with food growing and almost every other sector, but for some reason electrical power has to be in public hands.

You're not quite at the end of this discussion topic!

Use the page links at the lower-left to go to the next page to read additional posts.
 



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


To advertise on VibrantVictoria, call us at 250-884-0589.