356 replies to this topic

[VicHockeyFan]

I asked Frank Leonard on twitter

I said

Reading bid results for Craigflower bridge from $17.8 to over $20M, how does that jive with the under $12M 01/13 estimate?

He says:

project has different pieces - bridge, temp ped bridge, roadwork, etc

[Mike K.]

So in actuality we have a project billed to the public as $12 million, but it's not really $12 million, it's between $18 and $20 million? Why not be upfront and say the entire project, together with approaches or whatever else, is a $20 million project?

[weisguy86]

They have called a special meeting tonight to deal with the construction bids and assess why they are so much higher than the original estimates. I will let you know how it goes.

[weisguy86]

So... the $18-20M bids include work to be done further along Admirals road that will be paid for by Saanich. The bridge construction portion is $13.2M, which when combined with a contingency and apparently already spent funds comes to a total of $16.5M.

There are grants which have been secured to cover $11M, leaving the $5.5M to be split between the residents of View Royal and Saanich 50/50.

[Bingo]

We're essentially paying 5x more for the lift mechanism, a sexier design (hopefully) and approaches. If the JSB did not have to rise and did not incorporate new approaches we'd be looking at a roughly $20 million project as well.

I wonder how much the JSB cost will rise if they start digging up old middens on the Songhees land?

[Mike K.]

Thanks, weisguy86, for the update.

Bingo, no doubt. Things could get hairy very quickly if artifacts are unearthed.

[Ridley]

Yes thank you for the clarification, I was basing values on the published letter which indicated $11.9m including all works and as outlined above by Mike K. So if the final budget is more than indicated then great.

As for Unkowns encountered well that goes for almost any construction project and the wording of the final contract.

[Mike K.]

Here's the wording of the Saanich press release for those who may have a difficult time reading the text:

The construction tender will be released in January. It is expected that the municipalities will award the construction contract by the end of February. Currently the work is estimated to cost $11.9 million. The project includes the following:

- Replacement of the 80 year old Craigflower Bridge
- Construction of new sidewalks, bikelanes and road surface on Admirals Road from Island Highway to Cowper Street
- Construction of new bike lanes on Gorge Road from Inlet Avenue to Admirals Road
- Installation of storm water treatment facilities and rain gardens
- Refurbished traffic signal at Admirals Road and Gorge Road
- Replacement of the sanitary sewer, storm drain and water mains on Admirals Road

It is very clearly indicated the above project is estimated to cost $11.9 million. With $11 million received from the CRD that would leave $900,000 for tax payers to cover directly. That is far in excess of $16.5 million, let alone the $18-$20 million bids that were received.

When asked about the discrepancy, how does Saanich Mayor Frank Leonard's response make sense in light of the press release clearly indicating the project includes far more than the bridge as part of an $11.9 million project:

project has different pieces - bridge, temp ped bridge, roadwork, etc

We know the project has different pieces, they are clearly outlined in the press release and included within the $11.9 million estimate. Are Saanich and View Royal that far out of the ballpark with their estimate and are now wondering what happened? It just seems inconceivable to me that the municipalities would print $11.9 million as the anticipated budget then say the actual budget is far greater when the bids come in many millions above the estimate.

[Ageless Trout]

The primary reason this tender came in substantially over budget was because council "the Owner" would not provide an extension to the closing date allowing contractors the necessary time to refine their pricing to suit an alternate methodology of construction. This was due to a previous commitment of certain council members attending a conference at UBC and the unwillingness to reschedule the meeting to review the tenders.

The secondary reason was the DFO application is not approved and there is substantial risk associated with the potential restrictions that may be imposed, the allowances that will be given and the associated cost to resubmit and get an amendment to the approval based on supplemental information further compounded by the owner not adjusting the completion date to correspond with the receipt of pending approval. These are just a few things that council will not share with the public. See below.

“Please be advised all information pertaining to the Owners’ application to DFO were provided in section 1.10 of the Special Provisions and Appendix M – Impact Assessment Report as part of the initial Tender package. Subsequently, the Owners’ provided Appendix Q – Preliminary Environmental Management Plan through Addendum No. 2 on February 6, 2013. The Owners’ have not received authorization from DFO and therefore cannot be more definitive about the conditions of doing the work.
The Tender closing date will remain as is: February 20, 2013.”
Appendix M is Craigflower Bridge Replacement Project Aquatic Affects Assessment - Final report

District of Saanich
Purchasing Services
770 Vernon Avenue
Victoria, BC V8X 2W7
Tel: (250) 475-1775 ext 3481
Fax: ( 250) 475-5460
e-mail: purchase@saanich.ca

[Mike K.]

Welcome to VV!

Can you elaborate on where you come across the info about the UBC conference and scheduling conflicts?

[concorde]

Bid Results
Don Mann Excavating Ltd, , $17,803,628
Surespan Construction Ltd, $19,765,408
Windley Contracting Ltd, $20,001,914

Results are as Published by the Journal of Commerce. Interesting and some bid spreads which is not unusual for bridge work.... but kind of makes the JSB costs look fantastic...

Don't forget Knappett's bid of $20,047,774 so the top bids only had a price spread of 300k

[weisguy86]

[VicHockeyFan]

The $2.2-million bridge costs that are more than was anticipated are mostly for below-surface costs for dams and pilings, Leonard said.

“Obviously, we would have preferred it to be less. But for context, we’ve got 83 per cent of this project funded mostly by gas tax. There’s $10.7 million in gas tax funding and $250,000 from ICBC on the bridge part,” Leonard said.

Additional costs — which include contingency funds — have View Royal turning over every rock looking for money, said Mayor Graham Hill, adding that every other View Royal capital project is now on hold.

“It’s a huge hit. We don’t have either the revenue source capacity that Saanich has nor do we have the in-progress works that Saanich has,” Hill said.

“So what it means for us is that we have to scrounge money from every corner. We have to pillage our resources and budgets to make this work.”

Hill said that, after all the offsetting grants are factored in, his municipality still needs to find $130,000 — equivalent to a tax increase of about 2.5 per cent.

“What we’re going to have to try to do is find economies within our own budget to minimize that.”

Leonard said Saanich will find the additional money through reallocating funds from other capital projects.

http://www.timescolo...ojected-1.90921

[Ridley]

Well very happy about the project award, glad to see this project moving forward.
Does anyone know why the award is $3m less than tendered? even if you were to add GST to the award it does not make up the variance...regardless. nice to see the project move forward.

[Linear Thinker]

Well very happy about the project award, glad to see this project moving forward.
Does anyone know why the award is $3m less than tendered? even if you were to add GST to the award it does not make up the variance...regardless. nice to see the project move forward.

Looks lke the bid prices quoted by Ridley include HST.
From Saanich's March 11 Councl meeting agenda:

A tender was issued for the replacement of the Craigflower Bridge and the upgrade of Admirals Road, and responses were received from the following vendors:
Don Mann Excavating Ltd. $15,896,096
Surespan Construction Ltd. $17,647,686
Windley Constracting (2010) Ltd. $17,858,852
Knappett Projects Inc. $17,899,798

The tender represents an expenditure of $3,100,000 over budget. There is additional analysis that can be conducted post tender-award to look at savings or reductions to the scope of work to bring the project cost down, however; additional funding will be required. It is recommended that funds be transferred from the Cook Street project and construction of Cook Street be
deferred one year. Not all of the Cook Street funds will be required, so some planning and design work can still be conducted in 2013. This reallocation will be included in the final Financial Plan document.
The main components of the tender prices that were over budget are the proponent's use of a temporary work bridge ($1,000,000) and high costs for piling and coffer dams. Engineering staff conclude that the tender is a fair reflection of the market today and that market conditions were
good for the bid.

The prices quoted above would be pre HST prices.
My understanding is that municipalities pay HST, etc. to a supplier/contractor but are credited back the tax amounts.

[renthefinn]

Oooooh, about 2 million lower than the other bids, which were quite close. Hope Don Mann took everything into account....

[Linear Thinker]

Media release excerpts from the View Royal web site, dated March 28, 2013:

The Town of View Royal and the District of Saanich will be commencing the replacement of the Craigflower Bridge and upgrades to Admirals Road from Island Highway/Craigflower Road to Cowper Street, in early to mid-April 2013.

For the duration of construction, Admirals Road will be closed to traffic between Island Highway/Craigflower Road and Cowper Street.
Traffic will be impacted with the closure of Admirals Road. Click here [PDF - 1.5 MB] for a map showing alternate routes. Some of the changes that will be made to the road network to facilitate travel are:

Island Highway from Admirals Road to Six Mile Road will be temporarily designated as a truck route for the duration of the project;

Traffic signal timing will be adjusted at the following intersections:
Island Highway and Helmcken Road,
Island Highway/Craigflower Road and Admirals Road,
Craigflower Road and Tillicum Road,
Gorge Road West and Tillicum Road,
Tillicum Road and Trans Canada Highway and
Admirals Road and Trans Canada Highway;

Electronic message boards will be placed on primary approach roads and traffic advisory signs will be posted on applicable roadways.

In order to ensure the shortest closure time of Admirals Road as possible, we have offered a significant monetary bonus incentive to the contractor in order to have the road open to traffic by December 1st of this year.

I have seen the notice boards up for a while already saying the road will be closed in "early April".

I wonder how much the "significant monetary bonus" is?

[Bingo]

With the Craigflower Bridge closed for eight months, would this not be a good time to try running commuters back and forth on the E&N? Oh wait a minute, do we have any rail cars that we can get over here to ease the upcoming traffic nightmare?

Anything

[eseedhouse]

With the Craigflower Bridge closed for eight months, would this not be a good time to try running commuters back and forth on the E&N? Oh wait a minute, do we have any rail cars that we can get over here to ease the upcoming traffic nightmare?

Even if we did it would take a quick infusion of quite a lot of money to bring the tracks up to snuff.

[HB]

With the Craigflower Bridge closed for eight months, would this not be a good time to try running commuters back and forth on the E&N? Oh wait a minute, do we have any rail cars that we can get over here to ease the upcoming traffic nightmare?

Anything

The Budd Dayliners that were here are now in Quebec