1066 replies to this topic

[Rob Randall]

I think every original member here needs to take the MoCA test.

[Mike K.]

The contentious closing of the Falls’ breezeway is back in action as the manager of the building says VicPD are recommending they keep the breezeway closed to deter crime.

So we now have a public asset, which was offered as an amenity contribution, being kept from the public. I get the issues with safety, but there has to be a formal resolution.

[Jackerbie]

Where is this breezeway and what does it connect?

[m3m]

There have been a huge uptick in break-ins in the building. Storage lockers. bike lockers. car windows smashed. People sleeping in stairwells and garage. They hired overnight security to patrol the breezeway.

At some point, the building should be able to claim undue hardship.

[Rob Randall]

There is a parking entrance running north/south through the centre of the building. A pedestrian entrance in the middle of the west-facing storefronts connects to the parking area making a "T" shape connection. 

[Jackerbie]

There is a parking entrance running north/south through the centre of the building. A pedestrian entrance in the middle of the west-facing storefronts connects to the parking area making a "T" shape connection.

Sounds like a lackluster "amenity" if all it connects is the sidewalk to the parking lot. It should be closed after business hours until there's more redevelopment on the block.

[Mike K.]

It is. But just like the mural on The Wave, it was offered as a public benefit. The issue is that it’s closed all the time now, not just after business hours.

[Nparker]

...But just like the mural on The Wave, it was offered as a public benefit...

And just like the mural, The Falls walkway was a useless amenity from day 1.

[Rob Randall]

At the time the City insisted the walkway was necessary to combat the blight caused by Corbusian "superblocks". Which if you wade though the early pages of this thread you will learn was vigourously disputed.

 

My favourite aspect of the dispute was the disagreement between the committee members that thought the walkway should be wide to be more inviting and narrow to be more intimate. And those that thought it enhances sidewalk vibrancy and those that thought deleting it would enhance sidewalk vibrancy.

 

We said over a decade ago it was a bad idea and we've been proven right. 

[Jackerbie]

Walkways can be useful, but they have to be designed and located properly. Look at Fan Tan Alley, Millie's Lane, Trounce Alley, or Dragon Alley. All very different in design, but they ultimately work.

The Falls is not the right location, but something between the Chateau Victoria and a future development on the parking lots would probably be a good public asset if done right

Edited by Jackerbie, 08 November 2020 - 10:16 AM.

[Rob Randall]

Lotta help you were in 2006.

[Greg]

It is. But just like the mural on The Wave, it was offered as a public benefit. The issue is that it’s closed all the time now, not just after business hours.

 

And that's on the city. I'm less worried about my enjoyment of the Falls walk-through being limited than I am my enjoyment of Beacon Hill Park. And the root cause is the same in both situations.

[aastra]

 

So we now have a public asset, which was offered as an amenity contribution, being kept from the public. I get the issues with safety, but there has to be a formal resolution.

 

The formal resolution should be: stop trying to force these stupid walkways. Do them right and do them where they make sense, or don't do them at all. This mid-block walkways saga has been exhausting. It's almost 20 years later and we're still talking about it re: Yates on Yates, etc.

 

New walkways would not be better just because. New public squares would not be better just because. New green spaces would not be better just because. This is such fundamental stuff.

 

Rob Randall often asks if out-of-town architects have visited a site in person. I ask if the promoters of arbitrary walkways and public spaces have ever bothered to walk around and honestly assess which ones have been successful and worthwhile and which ones have not. It's as if they're conceptualizing on paper without considering reality first and without ever bothering to check how things turn out in reality.

[Rob Randall]

I emphasize that it was not my impression the walkway was initially offered as an amenity. It was strongly suggested by City Hall at a later meeting and Townline gave in. They then leveraged that (hey, we gave you the walkway, let us keep the height and roof lanterns). 

[Rob Randall]

We're talking about a walkway extending east from Douglas into the property, yes?

If there's no legitimate reason for folks to use it then I expect it will probably get a gate on it soon enough. A lonely public corridor in that part of town would likely be a magnet for all sorts of undesirable activity.

 

Ladies and gentlemen, the Amazing Kreskin.

[Victoria Watcher]

iirc the falls door can be legally closed from 6pm onwards. and yes there is an additional gate closed off to resident parking. locked at all times.

if they are closing the amenity gate 24/7 they need to pay the city money for ceasing the amenity.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 08 November 2020 - 02:26 PM.

[Nparker]

...stop trying to force these stupid walkways. Do them right and do them where they make sense, or don't do them at all...

Mid-block walkways need to be more than just lifeless, pedestrian shortcuts to be successful. See Jackerbie's post above re Fan Tan Alley, Millie's Lane, Trounce Alley, or Dragon Alley for good designs.

[Mike K.]

I emphasize that it was not my impression the walkway was initially offered as an amenity. It was strongly suggested by City Hall at a later meeting and Townline gave in. They then leveraged that (hey, we gave you the walkway, let us keep the height and roof lanterns).

In this case it was Westbank.

[Brantastic]

I live and walk around downtown nearly everyday, trying to find all sorts of nooks and crannies I've never discovered and this is the first I'm hearing of a mid-block walkway here. I just found it on Google Street View and it looks very sad.

[aastra]

The carriageway behind the Hudson is the gold standard for a modern purpose-built mid-block passage as far as I'm concerned:

 

- visually appealing (it's much more than just a claustrophobia-inducing corridor or tunnel),

- potentially useful for getting from A to B;

- activated (contains access points to commercial and residential establishments);

- not dangerous

 

If you want a pedestrian-only passage then do the same thing but make it a bit narrower. A bit.

 

The CoV should never have made it a mission to purposely introduce new isolated spaces to do drugs, or commit crimes or vandalism, or provide sexual services, or have privacy while sleeping, or whatever else. Heck, the push for these passages went into overdrive right around the same time there was that brouhaha about people relieving themselves downtown. Where was the sense in any of it?