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#21 yodsaker

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 08:05 AM

1200 for insurance at ICBC? My basic rate is 539 and with collision and liability it is 935 a year. In fact I used to buy my additional insurance from ING but they upped their rates and so ICBC was now cheaper for those as well.


Mine is about $900+/- including collision and liability.
I'm all for making the chronic offenders pay but its pretty easy to get a ticket for being a few kmh over the limit yet driving safely in all other respects. One offense doesn't justify jacking someone's rates for three years.
That said I think ICBC does a good job and rates are not high compared to other jurisdictions.

#22 sebberry

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 08:40 AM

The law permits you to drive 55km/h in a 50, 88km/h in a 80, 99km/h in a 90, 110km/h in a 100, and so on.


I'm sorry, Mike, but the law doesn't permit you to do what you describe.

That being said most cops won't write tickets for it but there is nothing in the MVA that says you get a 10% margin of error.


If you're doing 100 in an 80, that's cutting it. I got ticketed for doing just that, actually (I was the only vehicle on that stretch of the Pat Bay, so I let 'er rip). And the cop told me straight up that had I been doing 90, give or take, he wouldn't have flinched.


It may be "cutting it" from a legal perspective, but when you have more than half the drivers on the road doing just that and not causing collisions you have to wonder - the road design supports those speeds (and in fact encourages it since people tend to drive at a speed safe for their surroundings) and the limit just might be set unreasonably low.

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#23 sebberry

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 08:44 AM

fail to signal a lane change


That action probably ticks me off more than most others.

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#24 Mike K.

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 10:15 AM

I'm sorry, Mike, but the law doesn't permit you to do what you describe.

That being said most cops won't write tickets for it but there is nothing in the MVA that says you get a 10% margin of error.


The law cannot be upheld for tickets issued for speeding under 11% over the speed limit. The police are unlikely to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that deviations in the road together with wind conditions did not cause the driver to momentarily cross the magic threshold. And then there are questions about radar gun accuracy.

Next time you see a mobile radar unit, notice when it starts to flash and blink. They're calibrated to warn you about speeding as soon as you cross 10% over the posted speed limit. And if there's a cop hiding behind such a unit, he won't get notified until you cross the 10% threshold.

It may be "cutting it" from a legal perspective, but when you have more than half the drivers on the road doing just that and not causing collisions you have to wonder - the road design supports those speeds

But here's the problem with that. When drivers see 90km/h, they speed up to 110km/h. If they see 100km/h, they speed up to 120km/h. Posted speed limits are what they are for a very good reason, with safety and fuel conservation in mind. There's no mystery about the correlation between the most economical speed of the majority of vehicles, which is between 80 and 90km/h, and average highway speeds in Canada and the United States. Anything over that and drag starts to exponentially affect fuel usage while saving mere minutes in travel time, if any at all, for inner city driving on freeways or highways.

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#25 Sparky

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 12:06 PM

ICBC withdraws contentious speeding ticket proposal

The Insurance Corp. of B.C. has withdrawn its proposal that would have seen drivers pay three years of higher premiums after just one traffic violation......

Read more: http://www.vancouver...l#ixzz1MY1griBb

#26 rjag

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 12:24 PM

If you get pulled over by IRSU, expect to get a ticket 100% of the time. They gave a ticket to my neighbour for doing 44 in the 40 zone of Henderson....plus points.

Sorry but highway speed limits of between 80-90 are not the most economical for todays modern vehicle. Most modern cars achieve maximum fuel efficiency at around 100-105km/hr due to better aerodynamics, more gearing lower rpms etc.

Our current speed limits were set when a 62 Desoto was still under warranty which is a crock....but who is going to stand up and say "Lets increase speed limits!" They will be shouted down by all the social engineers that want to tell us what is best.

Most vehicle accidents are not caused by speed but by driver inattention. Have you seen how many scrapes & dings are in parking lots and most vehicles there are doing less than 10km/h.

I'm becoming very disillusioned at the recent police warning ads and the way they sound like they are treating us all like little children who are all guilty; its just we havent been caught yet.....This ICBC thing is just another example of undue influence by a small number of people that have a need to exert control.

#27 yodsaker

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 01:41 PM

ICBC backing down after getting a bollocking from the minister. The dumbo CEO did not consult before firing off the release. That's PR101 and someone at his salary and perks level should have known that.

#28 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 01:46 PM

http://www.theglobea...article2023772/
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#29 kenjh

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 02:25 PM

That action probably ticks me off more than most others.


that is where the inoperative light come in..200 plus for a light out.. and I have been told by the judge 50 is 50 if I am caught at 51 kmph it is speeding...and driving with the crowd at 90 in a 80 zone..the cop will say I caught you ..keeping with the flow of traffic is now excuse or reason to speed..

#30 Mike K.

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 02:36 PM

Sorry but highway speed limits of between 80-90 are not the most economical for todays modern vehicle. Most modern cars achieve maximum fuel efficiency at around 100-105km/hr due to better aerodynamics, more gearing lower rpms etc.


What exactly is the definition of a modern vehicle? My Yaris was most efficient anywhere between 80 and 90 and my Explorer gets its best mileage at around 80km/h.

When designing roads and implementing speed limits we need to think in averages. The average best efficiency for the average vehicle on an average section of highway is still between 80 and 90 and will be for a very, very long time.

I've driven the autobahn and, to my surprise, even though there are no speed limits, many vehicles were moving no faster than 100 to 110km/h. The reason was likely to conserve fuel, I'm guessing.

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#31 sebberry

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 02:39 PM

Next time you see a mobile radar unit, notice when it starts to flash and blink. They're calibrated to warn you about speeding as soon as you cross 10% over the posted speed limit. And if there's a cop hiding behind such a unit, he won't get notified until you cross the 10% threshold.


The mobile radar units are not required to be regularly calibrated as they are typically used only as a reminder that motorists might be speeding.

The tripod mounted lidar units used by the police at speed traps are accurate to within 1% provided they are calibrated correctly.


But here's the problem with that. When drivers see 90km/h, they speed up to 110km/h. If they see 100km/h, they speed up to 120km/h. Posted speed limits are what they are for a very good reason, with safety and fuel conservation in mind.


On the surface that would seem to make sense. If drivers feel they can get away with 10 over, then they drive 10 over. However that's not generally the case.

Regardless of the limit posted at the side of the road, the driver's speed will generally be influenced by the road design, hills, curves, number of intersections, number of other cars, weather conditions, etc.

So what actually happens when you raise the posted speed limit from 90 to 100 or 100 to 120 is you get a higher percentage of drivers voluntarily complying with the posted limit.

When the posted limit is more in-line with what the majority of drivers view to be a safe speed for the road, you see fewer drivers pushing the limit and travelling 10-20km/hr over.

In short, raising the speed limit by 10-20km/hr does not automatically result in everyone "speeding" by another 10-20km/hr.


Interesting piece - a speed limit study back in 2003 actually saw a reduction in collisions at test sites where they raised the limits:

Page 23

"The results of the analysis are shown in Table 8 for the Phase I sites and in Table 9 for the Phase II sites. Based on the analysis, it appears that raising the limit from 90 km/h to 100 km/h resulted in a 12.9 percent reduction in crashes at the sites where speed limits were raised. The Phase II sites experienced an 8.6 percent reduction in total crashes. Both reductions are
statistically significant."


Why the reduction in the number of collisions? The higher speed limit more accurately reflected the average travel speeds of motorists. This resulted in more consistent vehicle flow and less speed differential between vehicles.

In short, the slower drivers sped up to the new speed limit, but the previously "speeding" drivers didn't speed up by another 10km/hr.

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#32 Mike K.

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 02:41 PM

Here's something that will make everyone smile (the Pat Bay Hwy could use a few of these cops):

PS...there's a little bit of swearing in this video.
vJjtQKND4W8

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#33 sebberry

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 02:43 PM

hey, if you have the power, why not abuse it? ;)

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#34 Baro

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 03:26 PM

Nice, the cop was a bit of a playful jerk, but all he did was get the car over to where it should be. Left lane is for passing only, if you aren't passing the cars to your right, get the hell out of the lane!!

Although knowing cops here, they'd tail gate you while watching your speed, then bust you for speeding if you reacted to their tail gating by getting up to the socially accepted speed limits on the highway...
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#35 rjag

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 04:47 PM

What exactly is the definition of a modern vehicle? My Yaris was most efficient anywhere between 80 and 90 and my Explorer gets its best mileage at around 80km/h.

When designing roads and implementing speed limits we need to think in averages. The average best efficiency for the average vehicle on an average section of highway is still between 80 and 90 and will be for a very, very long time.

I've driven the autobahn and, to my surprise, even though there are no speed limits, many vehicles were moving no faster than 100 to 110km/h. The reason was likely to conserve fuel, I'm guessing.


A modern vehicle inho is one less than 5 or so years old. Most newer model cars and trucks have higher gear ratios or more gears compared to those from earlier in the decade. This results in higher speeds and lower rpms i.e. 6th gear at 100km/h in my 4.2 litre is 1750 but in my wifes 2005 suv with only 4 gears and an overdrive its 2250 rpm for the same speed. However this does not take into account aerodynamics etc but a simple common sense rule of physics.

I've driven over most of the EU and the speed limits in urban areas are strictly adhered to but they are also realistic i.e. 30-45km/h in built up single lane areas and 60-70km/h in divided roads like Blanshard. Highways range from 90-110 and freeways up to 140.....those being nice solid speeds not much reason to take your 1.5 litre turbo diesel beyond those speeds and you still get 800km to the tank!!!

My favorite drive was the Italian Autostrada, we were doing the posted speed of 140 when the cops flash past us doing 180 and the passenger looks over at us and he's totaly bored looking.

#36 Mike K.

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 12:05 PM

Yeah, the new six-speed trannies make a big difference on larger vehicles.

Ok, so here's the skinny straight from the horses mouth (actually, VicPD).

The speed limit is the speed limit. It is to be obeyed, legally speaking, and a ticket can be issued for going 1 km over the limit.

HOWEVER, police radar equipment has an error rate of up to 5%, therefore police tend not to act until the 5% threshold is crossed, and even then most police officers will allow up to 10km/h over the limit in a 50 zone and up, although the decision is up to them.

In a school zone, however, all bets are off. 1KM/H over and you'll get nailed, no ifs or buts. And if driving without due care and attention is seen by a cop, even if you're going the posted speed limit, you can get ticketed for undue care even though you were not breaking the law by speeding (think kids playing near the road and you're passing them at the posted limit -- under the law you should slow down in that situation).

In other words, this is all quite subjective and when getting stopped for a reasonably small speeding infraction the police officer will use his or her better judgement to issue a warning or issue a ticket, largely dependent on a drivers attitude with regards to the traffic stop, their driving history and driving style.

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#37 LJ

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:49 PM

When we first moved here there was radar/lidar set up on the TCH in the Helmeken area almost every day. They would move a mile one way or another but it was there, a lot.

Lately I haven't seen them set up at all. I like it better this way! I wonder if was a cost factor that has caused them to reduce the speed traps or whether they weren't very effective.
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#38 sebberry

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 07:14 PM

When we first moved here there was radar/lidar set up on the TCH in the Helmeken area almost every day. They would move a mile one way or another but it was there, a lot.

Lately I haven't seen them set up at all. I like it better this way! I wonder if was a cost factor that has caused them to reduce the speed traps or whether they weren't very effective.


People speed on that highway all the time too and very few collisions happen there. Go figure. I remember a few years back before all this safety nonsense people frequently did 130 up the three lane section. Never saw them crash.

Want to move over to the left lane to let a car merge northbound from Helmcken? You better prepared to speed up to 110km/hr. Which is 10km/hr (6mph) from having your car impounded for a week.

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#39 Lorenzo

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 05:50 AM

ICBC withdraws contentious speeding ticket proposal..........


The cynical side of me wonders if this was ever really on the table, or was it just a theatrical ploy to allow the Libs to swoop in and make everything better. My suspicions were aroused after the Minister said this measure would make it more difficult for "BC families", which happens to be the new "talking point" of the Premier's office in the lead up to the the election. I see this plan re-emerging after a new Liberal mandate.

#40 Sparky

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 06:24 AM

^ I don't know...do you think they could be that organized so soon? Perhaps.

They will also now have to swoop down and save us from BC Hydro and BC Ferries.

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