159 replies to this topic

[sdwright.vic]

^Firefighters are only Level I?

No, they are Level two. You only hand off to someone higher then you since you are the one aware of the issue.

[Daveyboy]

If Victoria uses its debt reduction reserves to build the new firehall, I wonder who will make up the Johnson Street Bridge shortfall.  The firehall expenditure would leave a grand total of 2 million in the reserves.

 

Dip into debt-reduction reserve to pay for new fire hall: report - See more at: http://www.timescolo...h.TF8ObBCZ.dpuf

Edited by Daveyboy, 02 February 2016 - 08:38 AM.

[jonny]

So is Helps just proposing we dip into the savings account rather than the chequing?

 

I think a real ingenious solution would involve an integrated Fire Hall #1 and Crystal Pool with a private operator and investment component that reduced the cost burden on taxpayers.

 

Partner with the YMCA like Westhills has done.

 

Completely redevelop the Crystal Pool site with a new fire hall, community pool + gym + tennis + basketball + etc, and add in residential and commercial components to offset ongoing operating costs. YMCA can run the rec facilities.

 

There would be restaurant facilities and shopping combined with maybe professional offices like maybe physiotherapy and massage services.

 

Include a rental housing component with some subsidized rents or whatever.

 

Throw in some fast response FD trucks to deal with the car wrecks, overdoses and paramedic assist scenarios and then we're really talking innovation.

 

[Jacques Cadé]

If Victoria uses its debt reduction reserves to build the new firehall, I wonder who will make up the Johnson Street Bridge shortfall.  The firehall expenditure would leave a grand total of 2 million in the reserves.

 

The City has several reserve funds. When staff proposed increasing the JSB budget in November, they suggested taking the money from the Building and Infrastructure Reserve, which had $28 million in it at the end of 2015. The firehall money would come from the Debt Reduction Reserve.

[aastra]

 

Completely redevelop the Crystal Pool site with a new fire hall, community pool + gym + tennis + basketball + etc, and add in residential and commercial components to offset ongoing operating costs. YMCA can run the rec facilities.

 

It makes great sense, so I don't think it would ever happen. And besides, when the Y leaves their current location you've got a gigantic/catastrophic/horrific issue re: the likely redevelopment of that site into lowrise apartments. Do you want that much blood on your hands?

[rjag]

$30million over 30 years to service a 75 year commercial building is not bad approx. $125k per month

 

http://mfa.bc.ca/cli...-term-borrowing 10 year rate is 2.6% which works out at around $1.65million per year on debt reduction. They could service a chunk of that debt just by ceasing frivolous programs like Beacon Hill Park closures, or Bens speed limit project. That's assuming they borrow 100% up front. Lots of commercial loans do a draw down method so by the time of occupancy say in 3 years time they have reduced some of the debt already.

 

Create a multi purpose building, $40 million instead and partner with groups like Justice Institute and become an emergency services training site to generate a return for the City, or maybe a commercial grow-op....

[VicHockeyFan]

When fire calls have gone down as much as 80% over the last 25 years, why are we planning for the same type of service level 30 or 50 years down the road?

 

I'm quite serious when I say that in 20 years, not only will car crashes be almost non-existent (so no more fire call-outs for them), but the whole 911 system might be different.  An ambulance might show up that has two medical attendants, neither of them that will be doing any driving.

[VicHockeyFan]

So is Helps just proposing we dip into the savings account rather than the chequing?

 

I think a real ingenious solution would involve an integrated Fire Hall #1 and Crystal Pool with a private operator and investment component that reduced the cost burden on taxpayers.

 

Partner with the YMCA like Westhills has done.

 

Completely redevelop the Crystal Pool site with a new fire hall, community pool + gym + tennis + basketball + etc, and add in residential and commercial components to offset ongoing operating costs. YMCA can run the rec facilities.

 

There would be restaurant facilities and shopping combined with maybe professional offices like maybe physiotherapy and massage services.

 

Include a rental housing component with some subsidized rents or whatever.

 

Throw in some fast response FD trucks to deal with the car wrecks, overdoses and paramedic assist scenarios and then we're really talking innovation.

 

 

This all makes a lot of sense.

[sebberry]

When fire calls have gone down as much as 80% over the last 25 years, why are we planning for the same type of service level 30 or 50 years down the road?

 

I'm quite serious when I say that in 20 years, not only will car crashes be almost non-existent (so no more fire call-outs for them), but the whole 911 system might be different.  An ambulance might show up that has two medical attendants, neither of them that will be doing any driving.

 

Because when some drunk kid tries to put out his cigarette on the couch and sets the apartment complex on fire, you want as many resources as possible to respond. 

 

Total call volume might be down, but unless you're equipped to handle the big emergencies you might as well dispatch a neighbour with a garden hose. 

[nagel]

Especially if we do ever get a big earthquake here.  It would be nice to have some trained people around to help deal with the s-show it will be.

[VicHockeyFan]

Especially if we do ever get a big earthquake here.  It would be nice to have some trained people around to help deal with the s-show it will be.

 

Look, if we get that massive quake, the number of first responders available in the first 48 hours is going to be minimal anyway.

 

It'll be every man for themselves for the first bit.  Remember, all the first responders not on shift when it hits will also take care of their own families first, before going into work.

 

An the chance of that big one in the next 50 years?  Only 1 in 10.

[VicHockeyFan]

Because when some drunk kid tries to put out his cigarette on the couch and sets the apartment complex on fire, you want as many resources as possible to respond. 

 

 

Apartments all have sufficient fire equipment now that at the very least, the building is woken and all are safely evacuated.  If it takes 3 more minutes for Saanich to get here with a truck it's not going to make any difference in terms of life safety.

[VicHockeyFan]

Apartments all have sufficient fire equipment now that at the very least, the building is woken and all are safely evacuated.  If it takes 3 more minutes for Saanich to get here with a truck it's not going to make any difference in terms of life safety.

 

When was the last fire death in Victoria, to a person not in the suite where the fire struck?  Ie. where did an innocent bystander die due to the actions in another suite?  I can't ever remember even one.

 

Ironically, the last major fire death(s) was on Johnson, within spitting distance of the back of the fire hall.

[sebberry]

When was the last

 

Not a good indicator of future emergencies. 

[rjag]

Look, if we get that massive quake, the number of first responders available in the first 48 hours is going to be minimal anyway.

 

It'll be every man for themselves for the first bit.  Remember, all the first responders not on shift when it hits will also take care of their own families first, before going into work.

 

An the chance of that big one in the next 50 years?  Only 1 in 10.

 

I was a certified disaster recovery planner in the mid 90's as part of my business training. You nailed it. This is exactly what we talk about when it comes to 1st, 2nd and 3rd level response times. In the event of a wide area catastrophe, priority will be given to hospitals, schools and significant infrastructure such as bridges, water and power supplies. No-one....absolutely no-one will see a firefighter, cop or paramedic for some time, until the above are sorted. You are on your own.

 

Further, all emergency responders not on shift are told to not respond unless called upon as they need folks 12 hours, 24 hours etc after the fact. If everyone turns up at once then no-one will be able to work 12-24 hours without relief. 

 

This would be a good time to be nice to folks like Nagel as most roads will be impassable unless you have a bike.

[rjag]

When was the last fire death in Victoria, to a person not in the suite where the fire struck?  Ie. where did an innocent bystander die due to the actions in another suite?  I can't ever remember even one.

 

Ironically, the last major fire death(s) was on Johnson, within spitting distance of the back of the fire hall.

 

Fire fighters are more than that, they really are emergency responders and are trained to handle more than fires....wide area disasters are more structural failures than fires

[nagel]

I was a certified disaster recovery planner in the mid 90's as part of my business training. You nailed it. This is exactly what we talk about when it comes to 1st, 2nd and 3rd level response times. In the event of a wide area catastrophe, priority will be given to hospitals, schools and significant infrastructure such as bridges, water and power supplies. No-one....absolutely no-one will see a firefighter, cop or paramedic for some time, until the above are sorted. You are on your own.

 

Further, all emergency responders not on shift are told to not respond unless called upon as they need folks 12 hours, 24 hours etc after the fact. If everyone turns up at once then no-one will be able to work 12-24 hours without relief. 

 

This would be a good time to be nice to folks like Nagel as most roads will be impassable unless you have a bike.

I will be looting along with the rest of the cyclists in the city.

[Mike K.]

The emergency response services in the CRD have confirmed on many occasions that help for members of the public may be unavailable for as many as seven days. This is a fact, and which is why they ask that everyone has supplies/emergency kids on-hand in the event of a major disaster.

 

Just think that we're 150km from 7.3 million people. Southern Vancouver Island will not be a priority following a megathrust quake.

[lanforod]

The emergency response services in the CRD have confirmed on many occasions that help for members of the public may be unavailable for as many as seven days. This is a fact, and which is why they ask that everyone has supplies/emergency kids on-hand in the event of a major disaster.

 

Just think that we're 150km from 7.3 million people. Southern Vancouver Island will not be a priority following a megathrust quake.

 

Oh good. That's why I'm having another kid, for emergencies.

Edited by lanforod, 02 February 2016 - 11:33 AM.

[sebberry]

The emergency response services in the CRD have confirmed on many occasions that help for members of the public may be unavailable for as many as seven days. This is a fact, and which is why they ask that everyone has supplies/emergency kids on-hand in the event of a major disaster.

 

Just think that we're 150km from 7.3 million people. Southern Vancouver Island will not be a priority following a megathrust quake.

 

I wonder how hard it would be to convince my fellow condo owners to replace the rickety garden shed with a small sea can for the storage of emergency supplies. 

 

Oh hell, they complain when I order up too many light bulbs.  Water and MREs won't make the cut.