3253 replies to this topic

[Shals]

By the photos above, the walls look pretty robust and I am a bit shocked I can hear next door.  I wonder how often my neighbor hears me... I don't talk much as I live alone, but he must hear my vacuum, cats and possibly my doors closing... I should pop over and ask!!  I want to poke a hole in the wall and see if it has all the "stuff" it should - is that bad, lol?  Wow, this is crazy, lol! 

Hi JacquelineQ, I believe I am your neighbor Surprisingly, I do not hear a thing from your apt. Nothing at all. I only hear traffic noise from Esquimalt Road when I open the window. I am keeping volume of my TV at its lowest to help.  In your situation I would seek help from the builder, who has responsibility, resources and expertise to investigate and resolve the issue. I will be available from Monday onwards to provide access to my unit for any investigation to determine cause of the problem.

[sebberry]

Nice of you to be considerate, Shals.  My neighbour told me to take a hike when I complained to him...

 

I agree that this is a matter for the builder to look into.  You shouldn't feel like a trespasser in your own home, especially in a building like the Promontory.  I remember this was a big complaint at the Hudson, too. 

[Mixed365]

Very considerate Shals. Welcome to VV. 

[JacquelineQ]

Hi JacquelineQ, I believe I am your neighbor Surprisingly, I do not hear a thing from your apt. Nothing at all. I only hear traffic noise from Esquimalt Road when I open the window. I am keeping volume of my TV at its lowest to help.  In your situation I would seek help from the builder, who has responsibility, resources and expertise to investigate and resolve the issue. I will be available from Monday onwards to provide access to my unit for any investigation to determine cause of the problem.

Wow, you seriously don't hear a thing? I vacuum like 3 times a day and my cat YOWLS when she wants attention!  I feel a bit better knowing it's quiet on your side.    We should do a TV test so you know what volume level is good - you have to enjoy your movies and live life!  

 

I will certainly contact Tim and see if he can somehow investigate my side of the wall, lol.  Thank you for allowing Tim access to your suite if needed  LOL, I still can't believe you can't hear the cat - maybe I won't be so hard on her now, lol!!! ;-)

[JacquelineQ]

Thank you everyone for your input and the education!  I will contact Tim (Bosa).

[Mr Cook Street]

You can poke a hole in your wall or floor or anywhere you like its your place and you should not need anyones permission to do this.

I believe in a condo building you only own as deep as the paint. Obviously this doesn't stop people from hanging paintings and so on. But technically (could be wrong!), you don't own the drywall.

[Nparker]

I believe in a condo building you only own as deep as the paint. Obviously this doesn't stop people from hanging paintings and so on. But technically (could be wrong!), you don't own the drywall.

That can only be true for common or outside walls. I am pretty sure I am more-or-less free to manipulate as I like any interior, non load-bearing walls.

[sebberry]

I believe in a condo building you only own as deep as the paint. Obviously this doesn't stop people from hanging paintings and so on. But technically (could be wrong!), you don't own the drywall.

 

I believe that the strata lot boundary reaches up to the midpoint of the wall. 

[sebberry]

 LOL, I still can't believe you can't hear the cat - maybe I won't be so hard on her now, lol!!! ;-)

 

Might be able to hear you, just doesn't want you to be thought of as the crazy cat lady.

[Gary H]

I believe that the strata lot boundary reaches up to the midpoint of the wall. 

 

Correct, you own your studs and half of the air gap between your studs and your neighbors studs.  Awhile back I did a very precise calculation of our square footage and it matches what Bosa claimed when measured to the dashed lines delineating each suite in the blueprint.  So how can you measure such a thing?  By loading the blueprint into Sketchup and scaling it based on a measured interior wall.

 

In our condo configuration our two suite-to-suite walls are adjacent to our neighbor's bedroom walls in such a way that any bedroom TVs would be mounted on the opposite wall (their headboards would be on the wall adjacent to our suite).  This also means that if they have guests over there is quite a sound buffer between them and our suite since guests don't hang out in the master bedrooms.  I don't have the blueprint for Jacqueline's floor but it would be interesting to see if her bedroom wall is adjacent to the living rooms of her neighbors.

 

[Mr Cook Street]

I believe that the strata lot boundary reaches up to the midpoint of the wall. 

Gotcha, thanks for clarifying.

[Holden West]

I was installing a high shelf in an old condo I lived in years ago--one that had state-of-the-art construction and soundproofing--that had a concrete ceiling and drywall. I climbed up on the kitchen counter to drill a hole and realized I could see directly into the suite next door! There was a gap up to half an inch wide and about six inches long, about the size of a pencil where the wall did not quite reach the ceiling. I immediately called the builder and he filled it with goop. Lessons:

 

1. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. This goes for soundproofing, too.
2. If you're the modest type, you might want to check for any similar gaps if you have concrete ceilings.

Edited by Holden West, 23 October 2014 - 11:32 AM.

[concorde]

The code says nothing about soundproofing. The drywall has to extend to the underside of structure and filled with fireproof caulking. The idea is that if there is a fire it will takeep 1 hour to reach next door. You can't get occupancy of a building unless this is inspected and approved by the city inspector. Obviously he missed a section

Smoke from a fire is a different matter

[Gary H]

The code says nothing about soundproofing...

 

What about this section?  STC of at least 50 between units.  Isn't this part of the building code (from jklymac's post: http://www.acoustics.../nbc_canada.asp)?

 

9.11.2.1. Minimum Sound Transmission Class Ratings
    1) Except as provided in Sentence (2), every dwelling unit shall be separated from every other space in a building in which noise may be generated by a construction providing a sound transmission class rating of at least 50, measured in accordance with Subsection 9.11.1. or as listed in A-9.10.3.1. in Appendix A.

 

Edited by Gary H, 23 October 2014 - 01:32 PM.

[jklymak]

Wow, you seriously don't hear a thing? I vacuum like 3 times a day and my cat YOWLS when she wants attention! 

 

Hmmmmmm.  Is it the voices from the other side of the wall that tell you to vacuum 3 times a day?  

[concorde]

I don't have a copy of the BC Building Code 2012 otherwise I would look it up, but I didn't think it said anything

 

Not sure what a sound transmission class rating of 50 means.  50dba?

[jklymak]

50dba of attenuation.

[concorde]

no it is not a direct correlation with dba, its what the wall assembly is constructed of and how much the wall assembly allows to transfer.

 

http://en.wikipedia....nsmission_class

 

From the table below, I don't think any of my condo buildings I ever built meet 50 STC

 

STC        What can be heard

25         Normal speech can be understood quite easily and distinctly through wall 

30        Loud speech can be understood fairly well, normal speech heard but not understood

35        Loud speech audible but not intelligible

40        Onset of "privacy"

42        Loud speech audible as a murmur

45        Loud speech not audible; 90% of statistical population not annoyed

50        Very loud sounds such as musical instruments or a stereo can be faintly heard; 99% of population not annoyed.

60+       Superior soundproofing; most sounds inaudible

Edited by concorde, 23 October 2014 - 05:23 PM.

[sebberry]

Achieving a high level of sound isolation in apartment buildings is expensive due to the additional materials required for the wall assembly to perform acceptably. 

 

Unfortunately it's only after people move in and try to sleep that they find out how shoddy the construction is.  But those granite counters sure are shiny!

 

EDIT:  I knew I had a video - here's my neighbour's washing machine upstairs: https://www.youtube....h?v=XGvOLS6UyG0

[Gary H]

Here is a much clearer explanation than the wiki page, including how the STC is actually calculated.  You generate sounds of a certain dB at 16 different frequencies in one room and then measure the sound level dB in the other room.  You then enter those results into a table that makes frequency contour adjustments and then you fiddle with the numbers to arrive at a result.  It's kind of trial and error to arrive at the STC.  The problem is the frequency range only goes down to 125 Hz and as the site points out, most complaints are for low frequency booming, so the STC, while helpful, does not tell you how well the wall will block your neighbors subwoofer.  In general though, the higher the STC, the less sound is transmitted through the wall.

 

http://www.soundproo...erstanding-stc/

 

I remember a Bosa customer care rep mentioning that if an owner made modifications to a wall, to say mount in-wall speakers, and it resulted in the wall no longer meeting the design STC then Bosa would not be liable for any issues related to noise that may arise (obviously).

 

In our building I think we may have alternating drywall thicknesses.  The reason I think this is that I had Bosa run some speaker wire through the concrete ceiling into outlets on opposite walls.  When I went to install the banana jack wall plates I noticed that one wall had really thick drywall, which I assume was a double layer, while the other wall had a normal thickness.  I remember this because I had to get some longer screws for the double thick wall plates.  Maybe in JQs case, she only has a single layer when she should have had two.

Edited by Gary H, 23 October 2014 - 05:55 PM.