1760 replies to this topic

[Bingo]

The Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railway says it filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection Wednesday in the U.S.

It also said its sister company in Canada – Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Canada Co. – simultaneously filed a petition in Quebec Superior Court in Montreal seeking relief under the Companies’ Creditors Arrangement Act, a step that would protect it from its creditors.

“It has become apparent that the obligations of both companies now exceed the value of their assets, including prospective insurance recoveries, as a direct result of the tragic derailment at Lac-Megantic,” Ed Burkhardt, the chairman of both companies, said in a statement.

http://globalnews.ca...quebec-tragedy/

[Bingo]

Oil Railway To Prince Rupert Could Carry Northern Gateway's Capacity:
 

OTTAWA - CN Rail, at the urging of Chinese-owned Nexen Inc., is considering shipping Alberta bitumen to Prince Rupert, B.C., by rail in quantities matching the controversial Northern Gateway pipeline, documents show.

The proposed Enbridge Northern Gateway pipeline, which would carry crude oil to Kitimat, B.C., has met fierce opposition from First Nations and environmentalists.

http://www.huffingto..._n_3972293.html

 

Edited by Bingo, 04 December 2016 - 07:12 AM.

[Mike K.]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the pipeline was meant to draw all of the criticism while rail would eventually be heralded as a compromise (but which was the primary choice from the get-go)?

[VicHockeyFan]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the pipeline was meant to draw all of the criticism while rail would eventually be heralded as a compromise (but which was the primary choice from the get-go)?

No, rail is not efficient. And the Quebec disaster doesn't help that option win support.

[jonny]

Rail is a huge PITA from an operational perspective compared to a pipeline. The huge opposition to more pipelines is only increasing the appetite for rail. With rail they will need huge railyards, loading and unloading facilities, lots of employees and many thousands of rail cars.

How much diesel will they burn pulling the trains back and forth across the mountains? Trains derail rather frequently and our railways are often along river valleys, highways and travel through our towns...I much prefer pipelines.

[VicHockeyFan]

So this massive announcement comes out of Malaysia about LNG, and zero media sources mention any possible siting for the thing?

http://www.thestar.c...t_pipeline.html

Do reporters just work M-F around this country?

EDIT: Oh, here it is... **pdf: http://pacificnorthw...round-jun04.pdf Prince Rupert.

From Bloomberg: http://www.bloomberg...najib-says.html

[James Bay walker]

Tankers have become less hazardous by being required to have double hulls in case of accidents, to limit costly oil spill damages to the environment.

Oil pipelines have similar accidents, so why is no one pushing for double walled pipelines to limit costly oil spill damages to the environment?

jbw

ps. If the bitumen were largely solid or a firm sludge, rail transport is sounding safe enough for the environment. But I'd wonder about the shear volume of noisy and obstructive rail traffic passing through communities. At a minimum, noise dampeners largely shielding the wheel trucks under the carriages would be helpful towards noise abatement.

[Bingo]

Tankers have become less hazardous by being required to have double hulls in case of accidents, to limit costly oil spill damages to the environment.

Oil pipelines have similar accidents, so why is no one pushing for double walled pipelines to limit costly oil spill damages to the environment?

ps. If the bitumen were largely solid or a firm sludge, rail transport is sounding safe enough for the environment.

No matter which option is used you will always have the human error variable. Train engineers forget to set the brakes, and helmspersons of ships hit islands.

I think some of our isolated infrastructure will be vulnerable to terrorism, as it seems they may be going after "softer targets"

[VicHockeyFan]

No matter which option is used you will always have the human error variable. Train engineers forget to set the brakes, and helmspersons of ships hit islands.

I think most derailments are not human error.

EDIT: Well it's well under 50%.

http://www.slate.com...the_tracks.html

...Human error or problems with the track. Last year, the Federal Railroad Administration reported 1,876 derailments on U.S. railroads, although the vast majority cause only minor damage. Among those incidents, 46.7 percent were caused by track defects, while another 28.7 percent were caused by human factors. (The cause of Saturday's derailment is still unknown.) The rest were caused by mechanical problems with the train itself, signal failures, and miscellaneous factors ranging from vandalism to snow.

Human-caused derailments are rarely traced back to the proverbial employee asleep at the switch—the FRA reported only one such derailment last year. Instead, accidents more frequently occur because trains are going too fast. Some train wrecks occur when drivers exceed the posted speed limit (19 derailments last year), but, more often, the cars go off the rails because the brakes weren't used correctly.

...and non-human-error derailments are becoming less common:

Over the past 30 years, improvements in the monitoring of track conditions have helped cut the number of derailments by more than two-thirds. (In 1975, U.S. railroads saw 6,328 derailments.)

[VicHockeyFan]

From today's pipeline protest on Government St. Doug Clement Photography.

[VicHockeyFan]

It all goes down at 1:30pm today.  I'm a little surprised there has not been a leak yet (leak of the information, not an oil leak).  Hope the higher-end bars and restaurants in Calgary have laid on extra staff for all the celebrations tonight!

 

Can someone remind me what Kitimat's official position is?

[jonny]

It all goes down at 1:30pm today.  I'm a little surprised there has not been a leak yet (leak of the information, not an oil leak).  Hope the higher-end bars and restaurants in Calgary have laid on extra staff for all the celebrations tonight!

 

Can someone remind me what Kitimat's official position is?

 

I don’t believe the town has an official position on the export of crude oil, but they are strongly supportive of LNG export. The Haisla First Nation is strongly against the Enbridge proposal.

 

I used to live up there. While there are some, few people I know are publically for the Enbridge pipeline. There are many vocal opponents, but the town has been in such a decline for so long that there are many people who silently somewhat supportive because they are loathe to turn away high paying, long term jobs.

 

I guess it all comes down to how much stock you want to put into the fear mongering and what your risk tolerance is. Are there likely to be incidents? Yes. Are those incidents likely to be catastrophic in terms of a massive release of oil in a totally out of control manner? Probably not.

Edited by jonny, 19 December 2013 - 11:17 AM.

[VicHockeyFan]

✪ BREAKING NEWS:   ☑ YES.

 

A National Energy Board decision on whether Enbridge's proposed Northern Gateway pipeline will be recommended for approval was made public this afternoon in Calgary.

 

The panel has approved the pipeline, with over 200 conditions. 

 

The final decision rests with the federal government, which has 180 days to decide.

 

The $6.5-billion pipeline would take bitumen from Alberta's oilsands to the B.C. coast for tanker export to Asia. 

[Mike K.]

So now is the decision solely in the hands of the feds and BC or has BC already approved the pipeline?

[eseedhouse]

We all want to keep using oil,

 

We do?  How do you know that?  Have you talked with each and every one of us?

 

Or could it be that you are just exaggerating to buttress a weak case? 

 

And what do you mean by "keep using oil"?  Does frying fish in peanut oil count?

 

I want to stop using oil for fuel so we can stop wasting it but keep using it to make really useful stuff, like medicines for example.  If by your sentence above you meant "we all want to burn oil as fuel" then by counterexample you are wrong.

[Nparker]

So now is the decision solely in the hands of the feds and BC or has BC already approved the pipeline?

I am sure the BC government approved the pipeline before the May 2013 election; they just didn't see it as politically expedient to announce it then.

[VicHockeyFan]

^ Some say the NDP lost as they opposed the Kinder Morgan expansion.  So who knows.  The Kinder Morgan expansion will then be larger volume than Northern Gateway and right into Vancouver.

[Bingo]

We do?  How do you know that?  Have you talked with each and every one of us?

 

Or could it be that you are just exaggerating to buttress a weak case? 

 

And what do you mean by "keep using oil"?  Does frying fish in peanut oil count?

 

I want to stop using oil for fuel so we can stop wasting it but keep using it to make really useful stuff, like medicines for example.  If by your sentence above you meant "we all want to burn oil as fuel" then by counterexample you are wrong.

 

It isn't much of a stretch to know that 92.3489% of the world depends on oil to move the goods they depend on.

 

I agree that oil for medicine, such as for your morning dose of Cod Liver Oil, is really useful stuff. 

[lanforod]

I am sure the BC government approved the pipeline before the May 2013 election; they just didn't see it as politically expedient to announce it then.

I thought they put those 5 conditions on the approval of any new pipelines. Since Alberta has agreed to meet those conditions, it's essentially BC approved?

http://www.theglobea...rticle15273829/

[jonny]

One thing that bugs me about the opposition to the Enbridge and Kinder Morgan projects is when people say our coastline is just too precious to risk being polluted. I find that mindset self centered, egotistical and not realistic.

 

What about the coastlines of Alaska? Newfoundland? Washington state? What about the St Lawrence Seaway or the Gulf Coast? What about all the oil that travels a few kilometers south of Victoria in the strait?

 

Yes the area up around Kitimat is beautiful in a lot of ways, but its not a national park and very few people are put at risk with projects up there.