1754 replies to this topic

[spanky123]

Ironically, the sale was approved by KM shareholders this morning, shortly after the Federal Court of Appeal decision was announced.

 

I bet that they couldn't cast their votes fast enough!

[LeoVictoria]

KM is looking more and more like geniuses in this situation.  What is the chance they weren't fully aware that the approvals were shaky and jumped at the chance to unload this thing.   

Edited by LeoVictoria, 30 August 2018 - 09:58 AM.

[rjag]

It will be delayed but its not dead

[nagel]

Its as dead as the apostrophe in conjunctions on social media and forums.

[LeoVictoria]

It will be delayed but its not dead

Ugh. Just make a decision already. This process is horrible no wonder industry wants to pass the buck

[vortoozo]

KM is looking more and more like geniuses in this situation.  What is the chance they weren't fully aware that the approvals were shaky and jumped at the chance to unload this thing.   

 

Of course they were aware that it was shaky. That's why they wanted out to begin with. The risk level was too high.

[jonny]

The Trans Mountain Pipeline has been quashed by the Federal Court of Appeal which leaves the project in limbo.

 

Every media outlet is seemingly saying "quashed", but not so fast...the court approved the large majority of the process and conclusions of both the NEB and Cabinet. The ruling actually says the added consultation process could be "brief and efficient, while ensuring it is meaningful. The end result may be a short delay." Hardly quashed or a fatal blow to this particular project. It is a deep body wound to the industry, though. 

 

The case could go to the SCC. 

 

Or (the more likely option)

 

Trans Mountain carries out a bit more consultation and after a relatively short delay this thing proceeds. One main issue now is that this the project would have to go back to Cabinet for approval, which presents obvious conflicts of interest as the project is now owned by the Federal Government. What a mess. 

 

Interestingly, TM began formal construction this week in Alberta. L.M.A.O. 

 

Make no mistake, the City of Burnaby and others will appeal the many, many points they lost in this ruling. 

 

And yes, these processes in Canada are an absolute friggin joke. Whichever way this ultimately goes, the Liberals have a massive political headache and absolutely nothing has been accomplished to assure industry that Canada can build major infrastructure projects. What a mess. Canada is closed for business. The oil and cash should be flowing already. 

[jonny]

Of course they were aware that it was shaky. That's why they wanted out to begin with. The risk level was too high.

 

Shaky because the process is impossible or nearly impossible and each side has endless resources to sustain years and years of litigation. 

[UDeMan]

they try to prevent the twinning of an existing pipeline because it is not environmentally friendly.  so now more product will be shipped by the railways, which is the most unsafe way.

 

no way to prevent the railways from shipping the crude, they already have the right of way.

[Victoria Watcher]

except there is no major railcar-to-ocean-freighter transfer station or port on this coast.  so it goes elsewhere.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 30 August 2018 - 01:22 PM.

[spanky123]

Shaky because the process is impossible or nearly impossible and each side has endless resources to sustain years and years of litigation. 

 

This is a delay and nothing more. Courts have ruled that the Government has a duty to consult with FN and in this case the judges ruled that the consultation was inadequate. The Feds will quickly arrange meetings with the FN at stake and listen to their concerns and they may even offer some suggestions on how those concerns can be mitigated. Make no mistake though, the Supreme Court has ruled that the Government has a duty to consult but FN do not have a veto. If the Feds determine that a project is in the national interest then it can proceed even if FN are opposed as long as appropriate consultation occurred. 

 

The NEB will now also take into considered the marine impact of the decision now that they have told to do so but does anyone think that with 1,000 yachts, container ships, cargo ships, and whale watching boats in the straights every day that an extra 1 or 2 tankers will have any impact on noise exposure to Orcas? The NEB will reaffirm its original decision and the project will proceed.

 

Lawyers will make a few million extra in this process and the pipeline will be delayed several months but that is about it.

[Victoria Watcher]

i read somewhere they can keep building and preparing as they are now unless the other side applies for an injunction.

[Bingo]

except there is no major railcar-to-ocean-freighter transfer station or port on this coast.  so it goes elsewhere.

 

Not major but some does arrive by rail in Port Moody from Edmonton.

http://www.portmoody...x.aspx?page=842

 

Key Facts:

• Year Established:1958
• 50 acres
• 16 employees
• End-use bulk petroleum products: lubricants, asphalt, marine gas oil, intermediate and bunker fuels.
• Marine bulk movement products: Marine gas oil, diesel flux, intermediate fuels and bunker fuels.
• The terminal loads barges with intermediate fuel oil in volume lots ranging 500 to 3,500 tonnes.
• Terminal is typically supplied by rail car from Edmonton.
• Marine gas oil and diesel flux are supplied by barge in full load quantities from Petro Canada’s Burrard Terminal.
• The terminal is also supplied by imported bunker via barge.
• Total taxes levied in 2011: $1,401,317.73

 

Edited by Bingo, 30 August 2018 - 04:32 PM.

[Bingo]

And some rail here.

 

[Victoria Watcher]

^ and ^^  interesting.

[Casual Kev]

Notice to the world: the only thing that's easy for you to do in B.C. is buy real estate!

[Mike K.]

Alberta has pulled out of the federal climate action plan.

[tjv]

The Alberta economy is in shambles.  I had a friend move to Calgary ~4 years ago and he's finally looking to come back.  Now its time to sell the house and in 4 years he figures he's lost 110k on the value of his house.  He was thinking of keeping it and renting it, but his real estate agent says they expect the real estate market not to go anywhere for the next while.  I didn't want to remind him it will cost about 300k more to buy his old house in Victoria back.

 

They keep talking about an Alberta economic recovery, but the reality is far different if you live there.  Alberta is desperate to get the economy moving again.

[Bingo]

 Albertan's need to be able to get their products to the coast and Canada need that to keep the economy healthy.

With the pipeline on hold I expect to see more shipments out of Alberta by rail.

[lanforod]

I have faith that Jason Kenney can start to turn that ship around next year.