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Just got my hydro bill $983


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#261 sebberry

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:05 AM

Carbon dioxide emissions per capita (tonnes) UAE 25.0
Carbon dioxide emissions per capita (tonnes) Canada 16.3


This is what comes of not having mandatory emission control devices on camels.

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#262 tedward

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:14 AM

Just because we have lots of power does not mean we should sell it to ourselves for low rates. Just like Alberta should not have cheap gasoline prices.


No, we should sell it to ourselves at a rate that pays for the cost of production and accounts for future upgrades, improvement and maintenance. I have no problem adding a small "profit" to add to the public coffers but I see no reason whatsoever to make private profit a feature of a public resource and I certainly see no good reason to base our pricing on what someone in Ontario or Nova Scotia is paying.

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#263 Mike K.

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:15 AM

Aren't a lot of vehicles in Dubai super luxury, high-emission gas guzzlers? When money is no object few will opt for a Hybrid if they can drift around the desert in a Lamborghini.

...and I certainly see no good reason to base our pricing on what someone in Ontario or Nova Scotia is paying.


Can't say I disagree with this. I'm not sure why we should be expected to pay what someone else somewhere else is paying. The world just doesn't work that way, otherwise housing prices in Thunder Bay would be on par with housing prices in Victoria.

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#264 Sparky

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:21 AM

This is off topic....but before you talk about Dubai......watch this.

-pQdjwliLMA

#265 sebberry

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:35 AM

I guess they didn't want to pipe it, eh? ;)

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#266 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:02 PM

No, we should sell it to ourselves at a rate that pays for the cost of production and accounts for future upgrades, improvement and maintenance. I have no problem adding a small "profit" to add to the public coffers but I see no reason whatsoever to make private profit a feature of a public resource and I certainly see no good reason to base our pricing on what someone in Ontario or Nova Scotia is paying.


Can't say I disagree with this. I'm not sure why we should be expected to pay what someone else somewhere else is paying. The world just doesn't work that way, otherwise housing prices in Thunder Bay would be on par with housing prices in Victoria.


Come on guys.. economics 101. We should pay the same as we CAN SELL IT TO ONTARIO OR NOVA SCOTIA FOR. ie. if we "make" it for 5 cents/kwh, and Ontario or California is willing to pay 12 cents/kwh for it, why sell it to ourselves for 5 cents when we can make a killing selling it elsewhere? To ensure that we don't "waste" this profit, we sell it to ourselves for a similar price as others are willing to pay , in order to meets our needs, but also maximize revenues for any excess power.

That goes for electricity, coal, gold, lumber, diamonds, fish, whatever. The world DOES work that way.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#267 pherthyl

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:47 PM

http://www.arabianbu...orst-52827.html



"Two factors point to a worsening air pollution situation in Dubai - the rapid pace of urbanisation and motorisation. Dubai's statistical data showed that motor vehicles increased by an annual average of about 12 percent. Dubai has about 541 vehicles per thousand population, which is higher than New York (444), London (345) and Singapore (111)," Salman said.


And you think this is caused by low gas prices? That is one hell of a stretch

#268 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 04:15 AM

And you think this is caused by low gas prices? That is one hell of a stretch


A hell of a stretch? Suggesting that low prices drive increased demand? That's well before Economics 101, that's elementary school economics. It's no stretch, it's an iron-fast rule of real-world economics that even the most dim gradeschool child should be able to grasp.

A few posts back, someone mentioned how UAE had a fairly high human development index. Guess who has #1. Norway, and they also have the second-highest gas price at the pumps in the world.

"Norway is unusual in that it's the only major oil producer with expensive gas. Instead of subsidizing fuel at the pump, the country uses its oil profits for services, such as free college education, and savings for infrastructure improvements."

http://www.bloomberg...try.html#slide3

Now let's look at the very cheapest gas prices in the world, and see if somehow cheap gas leads to better economies, or generally better living conditions:

Nigeria
Iran
UAE
Egypt
Kuwait
Saudi Arabia
Venezuela
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#269 tedward

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:54 AM

Come on guys.. economics 101... why sell it to ourselves for 5 cents when we can make a killing selling it elsewhere?


I may not be an economist but clearly you missed something: we need power. We are not talking about what rate to charge others we are talking about what rate to charge ourselves for the power produced here using our natural resources. We cannot sell our power for high rates and then buy power for ourselves more cheaply from elsewhere to supply our own needs.

There are good reasons to charge more than the bare minimum cost of production including discouraging waste, investing in future technologies or just supporting other government services but "market prices" are no more than guideline for a maximum price for ourselves.

If we have spare capacity then by all means sell it at what the market will bear but that is not what we are talking about.

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#270 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 08:21 AM

I may not be an economist but clearly you missed something: we need power. We are not talking about what rate to charge others we are talking about what rate to charge ourselves for the power produced here using our natural resources. We cannot sell our power for high rates and then buy power for ourselves more cheaply from elsewhere to supply our own needs.

There are good reasons to charge more than the bare minimum cost of production including discouraging waste, investing in future technologies or just supporting other government services but "market prices" are no more than guideline for a maximum price for ourselves.

If we have spare capacity then by all means sell it at what the market will bear but that is not what we are talking about.


Every tiny bit of a price increase (to ourselves) actually means that we conserve more. That's the way things work, higher prices drive lower consumptions, be it in bananas, or power (yes, I know it's not quite as elastic, but it is all the same principle). And it follows that if we conserve power here in BC, we have extra power to sell elsewhere. The are nearly 200 Powerex employees in Vancouver whose job it is to sell our excess power wherever they can, for the best price.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#271 Sparky

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 08:27 AM

Here is a colosal waste of money. There are 5 line trucks here at the moment taking out a concrete hydro pole and replacing it with a wood one. Apparently the wood ones last longer contrary to what must have been a sales job by the concrete pole salesman.

Apparently this is going on all over the province.



#272 sebberry

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 09:04 AM

Probably something to do with this, Sparky?

http://www.twu-stt.c...-concrete-poles

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#273 Sparky

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 09:09 AM

Correct.

#274 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 09:14 AM

http://www.cowichann.../207117951.html

The $60-million replacement of some 9,400 poles with wooden ones will happen across B.C. during the next 10 years.


$6382 per pole.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#275 sebberry

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 09:20 AM

$6382 per pole.


Good thing we're paying market rate for the poles. Wouldn't want to tap into our local natural resources and save a few dollars ;)

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#276 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 09:32 AM

Touche. But of course, the cost of the wooden pole is a small part of the $6k.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#277 Mike K.

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 09:54 AM

Come on guys.. economics 101. We should pay the same as we CAN SELL IT TO ONTARIO OR NOVA SCOTIA FOR. ie. if we "make" it for 5 cents/kwh, and Ontario or California is willing to pay 12 cents/kwh for it, why sell it to ourselves for 5 cents when we can make a killing selling it elsewhere? To ensure that we don't "waste" this profit, we sell it to ourselves for a similar price as others are willing to pay , in order to meets our needs, but also maximize revenues for any excess power.

That goes for electricity, coal, gold, lumber, diamonds, fish, whatever. The world DOES work that way.


But the world doesn't work that way. If we're the producer, why would we charge ourselves the same rate as we would sell excess production for to a higher paying market that doesn't have the same hydro capacity we do and is willing to pay more? BC Hydro's mandate, after all, is "reliable power, at low cost, for generations." It's not "reliable power, at global market rates, for generations."

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#278 tedward

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 10:45 AM

Every tiny bit of a price increase (to ourselves) actually means that we conserve more.


Yes, and that has nothing to do with your thesis that we must charge ourselves more because that is what the market will bear.

You said: we must charge X because that is what they pay in Ontario.

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#279 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 10:55 AM

But the world doesn't work that way.


Uh, ya it does. What do they pay for gasoline in Alberta? What do you pay for Pacific Salmon, Island lumber, Fanny Bay Oysters etc.? You don't waive royalties, fees, leases, taxes or stumpage on products designed for consumption by our own populations. Nor should we.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#280 Mike K.

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:23 AM

BC Hydro is a crown corporation with a mandate to generate electricity at low cost, not at a globally accepted market rate. Oil producers in Alberta are private and they have no mandate to produce oil at low cost and their very profitability hinges on high global oil prices. If global oil prices plummet, Alberta's oil industry will fold.

Despite Alberta's oil producers being private companies, Alberta's fuel is still priced 20%-30% below our fuel prices, and you're suggesting that BC Hydro, a crown corporation, should aspire to charge British Columbians the same rates they charge a region that cannot produce cheap electricity or doesn't have the infrastructure to produce it?

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