32 replies to this topic

[Gregory Hartnell]

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As a local working artist, I submit that public subsidization of groups such as Swollen Members, Avril Lavigne, World Wide Wrestling, K-os, Snoop Dog, etc. at public venues such as Centennial Square, the new arena, Ship's Point, etc. are simply not in the public interest, and do not advance the growth of local culture in any way.

I hope that answers your question.

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[Holden West]

Support of local culture is vital if our role as "Cultural Capital" is to be taken seriously.

But arbitrarily labelling acts that happen to hail from outside the CRD as "trash" is pointlessly judgemental and innaccurate. Gregory, does that mean Torontonians can call Victoria's Nelly Furtado or P.K. Page "trash"? Does a Victorian like Alice Munro that moves away become "trash"? How about a Winnipegger that moves to Victoria like Burton Cummings? Does he lose his "trash" label?

Cultural exposure is a two-way street, Mr. Hartnell. Victorians are enlightened by exposure to artists from around the world. To pretend that only local artists are worthy of exposure at non-private venues is a false tribute--by removing them from the global context it in fact devalues local artists.

To take your argument to its logical conclusion one would be forced to strip the Art Gallery of Greater Victoria of all its excellent examples of non-local historical and contemporary art--a laughable proposition.

[Lover Fighter]

Swollen Members are actually from Victoria.... But anyways, most of those acts are pretty dang talentless, but at least they draw a crowd and bring in the money for venues. k-os I actually respect as a songwriter and never hope to seem him in another list alongside Snoop Dog and Swollen Members.

[Caramia]

Culture isn't something that is proscribed, at least not in a free society. Culture is what spreads, what is enjoyed, what is shared.

It is not the job of the City to dictate what culture is, but rather to recognise it and support it. It isn't expected to be to everyone's taste. And that's fine. In fact it is almost guarenteed that old people won't think much of young people's cultural choices, and vice versa. In a society where political power is overwhelmingly held by the ageing it is especially important not to allow decision makers to dictate and control cultural choices. And in return, when the torch is passed to the next generation, maybe they will allow things like the symphony to continue for the benefit of those old guys who like it.

At last night's Centenial Lecture, Stephen Lewis was asked by a High School Student what to do about the fact that so much sexual violence is portrayed in the media and arts. Stephen's reply struck me as very wise. He said... (I paraphrase) Celebrate the alternatives, and they are out there. Censorship doesn't work and leads to somewhere ugly.

[Ms. B. Havin]

At last night's Centenial Lecture, Stephen Lewis was asked by a High School Student what to do about the fact that so much sexual violence is portrayed in the media and arts. Stephen's reply struck me as very wise. He said... (I paraphrase) Celebrate the alternatives, and they are out there. Censorship doesn't work and leads to somewhere ugly.

Sounds pretty sensible to me.

[captain highliner]

I'm having this extreme sense of deja vu. A few years back I was involved in something called the Victoria Independent Media Centre, which in essence was a web based news outlet with open posting. Not too long after getting set up, our "news wire" was bombarded with press release style news posts from the mysterious Gregory Hartnell/Goyo de la Rosa/Concerned Citizens Coalition.

Most of the time the policies advocated or criticisms leveled by the poster were so laughable that it seemed like some kind of joke. The poster's politics had a decidedly fascist bent, harping on about the supposed cultural decay promoted by the city in allowing a modicum of free expression at city owned venues. I recall that the "Puppetry of the Penis" performance at the Mac was a particular thorn in his side.

At any rate, I welcome the open debate that sites like this one facilitate. I just hope that the forum doesn't get clogged by a marginal special interest group's (can one individual reasonably be thought of as a group?) ranting.

Mr. Hartnell, why do you think that only 381 people voted for you last election? Do you really think that you'll be able to move beyond your fringe status by propagandising on this forum? Are your activities here really about contributing in good faith to the debate on Victoria's future? Or is this all about a penchant for self promotion characteristic of a borderline personality? Right now, the way I see it, you're about as relevant as Dennis Oliver.

I apologize in advance for engaging in what might be seen as an ad hominem attack of this poster. It's just that I know Hartnell's modus opperendi.

[<avril>]

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As a local working artist, I submit that public subsidization of groups such as Swollen Members, Avril Lavigne, World Wide Wrestling, K-os, Snoop Dog, etc. at public venues such as Centennial Square, the new arena, Ship's Point, etc. are simply not in the public interest, and do not advance the growth of local culture in any way.

I hope that answers your question.

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Actually, many younger people in Victoria are quite interested in K-os,swollen members, and Avril Lavigne, me for example, and I think that to put on a show for all ages, it would be better if there was a mix of all types of artists, so that it would be fun and enjoyable for everyone.

P.S. I'm Zoomer's daughter. Hi everyone :!:

[G-Man]

Hey welcome aboard!

Your father is a wise man! And I am not even kidding.

Always great to have new perspectives on our great city.

I agree with you by the way. We need to have mix of entertainment types from big names to independants.

[Ms. B. Havin]

Welcome <avril>! Who would've thunk that that youngster (and I mean Zoomer, of course) could have such a mature daughter already...! La jeunesse dore...

[renthefinn]

Wow 2 generations of forumers from the same family, that's great to see! Welcome aboard and yes it's good to have a mix even if a style of music doesn't appeal to me, who am I to declare that music as bad?

[Mike K.]

Welcome, avril!

[&lt;avril&gt;]

Thanks, but now my dad is making me go to bed!

[Holden West]

Mean old dad!

Tell him you'll put him in a nursing home...and not a nice one--it'll be the one on 60 Minutes!



Meanwhile, I'll be up late tonight trying to figure out which of the 528 songs in my iTunes folder are "trash" and which aren't.

[Caramia]

Welcome Avril!

[Jada]

You know, he's only making you go to bed so he can sit up on the forum all night...

[zoomer]

Hey, watch it Holden, don't be putting any good ideas into her head! 10:00 p.m. is plenty plenty late on a weekend night for a youngin'!

renthefinn..we should be seeing your daughter posting soon..?!

also thanks Jada, Caramia, Derf, Ms. B and G-Man for the warm welcome for my daughter! She's a great kid, and it's cool she takes a bit of an interest in what her old man is up too!

Yes, Jada, you're right! I have to kick her off the computer so I get a turn!

[Caramia]

It's great to see her here Zoomer! We need more younger voices! I have been showing my own parents this site and trying to lure them on here. So far they just lurk, but one day....

[renthefinn]

Haha zoomer, I almost mentioned that in my post, but she is a little ways from posting anything coherant. She'll be over here on tuesday so if I remember I'll help her post something, that'd probably make her the youngest poster yet on the site!

[Galvanized]

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As a local working artist, I submit that public subsidization of groups such as Swollen Members, Avril Lavigne, World Wide Wrestling, K-os, Snoop Dog, etc. at public venues such as Centennial Square, the new arena, Ship's Point, etc. are simply not in the public interest, and do not advance the growth of local culture in any way.

I hope that answers your question.

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I don't understand this. Who asked the question? And why is culture from outside Victoria trash? If these events you have mentioned are not in the public interest then why are they heavily attended by the public?

[Gregory Hartnell]

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Zoomer asked me a question on another thread about a fellow who calls himself K-Os. I was attempting to give readers an idea of what I think 'trash culture' is by citing a few more examples of the phenomenon.

I am sorry for the confusion, but I must have inadvertently hit the 'new post ' button instead of the 'reply post' button.

It is not, of course, simply a matter of whether a group comes from out of town. In fact that is not the issue at all. The real point is that the City apparently has absolutely no control whatsoever over what is programmed at the new arena, Open Air in the Square, Folkfest, the Royal Theatre, and the MacPherson Theatre.

Yet all of these are public venues, paid for and maintained by public taxation, which in effect have had their management farmed out to non-accountable third parties.

As a working artist I find it is essential to formulate my own aesthetic opinions about what is quality and what is trash. All artists do this.

As a public-minded individual representing a more conservative constituency in Victoria, I feel an obligation to oppose the importation, promotion and staging of such trash to the public in these public (not private) venues.

If private entrepreneurs want to bring the Puppetry of the Penis or the Hells Angels' buddies in the Swollen Members to private venues in this city, I suppose that is their business. But it is not in the public interest, regardless of their popularity, to subsidize such trash in public venues.

What I hear from people on the street is that the new arena does not help local musical groups at all. So there is a feeling among many people that I encounter that the new facility is being used by the RG Group to impose its own version of culture on the rest of us, which is often, but not always what I would call 'trash.'

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