11042 replies to this topic

[Daveyboy]

I ride my bike 5 or 6 days per week on average.  I tried the new Wharf St bike lanes 3 times but will not continue on that route as it is way too dangerous.  I can't believe that I find the Pandora St bike lane safer but it is!!! 

[FogPub]

The CoV response, of course, will eventually be to eliminate all motor-vehicle access to anywhere between Wharf St. and the harbour.

 

And when this happens, remember: you heard it here first.

[Mike K.]

I've only driven that stretch once. It's so sketchy that I've opted to take Johnson to Douglas and cut south from there. More emissions, greater distance travelled, but far less stressful.

[Mike K.]

 

 

From the City's Wharf Street page: https://www.victoria...arf-street.html

 

 

[sebberry]

If you need a website to explain what should be a simple intersection, you're doing it wrong.

 

Road design really needs to cater to the lowest common denominator, or at least that's what all the 'everyone is driving too fast' crowd keeps saying.

 

An intersection should be easy to figure out by locals and out-of-towners alike. We seem to forget that signage and road markings are catering as much, if not more, to people who have never navigated that road or intersection before.  We over complicate things with markings and signs, then neglect basic markings and signage elsewhere leading to all sorts of confusion and challenges.

[rmpeers]

Given how Biketoria has gone so far, no surpise that there are issues with the latest stretch. Look out, Vancouver Street, we are gearing up to mess you up and wreak havoc.

[Mike K.]

Indeed we are confusing tourists. This is not an easy town to traverse once you get into downtown via car. Things get complicated, fast, and there are so many variables that it must be nerve wrecking if you’re not expecting or prepared for what you encounter.

I believe Tourism Vic recently had to reach out via radio to ask locals to be patient with tourists. There must have been some incidents that required outreach of that kind.

[On the Level]

Indeed we are confusing tourists. This is not an easy town to traverse once you get into downtown via car. Things get complicated, fast, and there are so many variables that it must be nerve wrecking if you’re not expecting or prepared for what you encounter.

I believe Tourism Vic recently had to reach out via radio to ask locals to be patient with tourists. There must have been some incidents that required outreach of that kind.

Obviously we can't train the tourists before they get here.  There has been a long campaign for defensive driving but perhaps there needs to be a properly funded push for defensive biking.

 

There seems to be some sort of bizarre assumption that you have the right to blast through anything on the right side of traffic and pedestrians.   

[dkuitu]

 

I primarily ride my bike to get around, and love cycling, but tbh I kind of hate this intersection for cycling. This has become one of my least favorite places to cycle unfortunately :'( Too many pedestrians just wander around in the bike lane and even cross the road in the cycle lane. I'm happy the city is trying to educate people, however the majority of people at this intersection are tourists and good luck educating them prior to their trip. It would be nice if the city built some barriers to force pedestrians to the islands and off the cycle track. What are your thoughts on this idea? I think a permanent concrete barrier with plants and benches where the red markings are would be a nice touch.

Edited by dkuitu, 22 August 2019 - 10:05 PM.

[VIResident]

Close Wharf and Humbolt to cars/trucks, force them to go around.  I appreciate that was not the initial intent however loss of limb or life seems probable and unacceptable.  Close it off.

 

Letter to Editor todays Times Colonist (Aug. 22/10)

 

"....Everything that Murray wrote is 100 per cent correct. Havoc has been created on the streets of Victoria while Mayor Lisa Helps claims that she is making cycling a safe alternative to the use of motorcars. What is really happening is that cycling has been made more dangerous, purposely frustrating motorists, burdening taxpayers and damaging businesses.

This week in my daily cycle downtown and along Wharf Street to Dallas Road, I was forced to experience the new bike lanes.I have cycled this route for years using the painted bike lanes — with no problem whatever. Now, I find that as a cyclist I am faced with several dangerous elements, all introduced unnecessarily, well detailed in Murray’s cogent commentary"

https://www.timescol...more-1.23924002

Edited by VIResident, 23 August 2019 - 04:37 AM.

[shoeflack]

I have cycled this route for years using the painted bike lanes — with no problem whatever.

 

 

Odd comment from a supposed daily cyclist, seeing as how there were never painted bike lanes on Wharf before the separated lanes.

[rjag]

https://www.erockit.de/en/home-2/

 

80KMH top speed with 120km range...I dont think Lisa would be very happy with this bike in her lane!

 

At 11,850 Euro its not cheap but holy crap that would be a blast!

[FogPub]

 

Close Wharf and Humbolt to cars/trucks, force them to go around.  I appreciate that was not the initial intent however loss of limb or life seems probable and unacceptable.  Close it off.

 

If you did that you'd also have to turn Government St around to make it one-way southbound, otherwise anyone coming over the bridge would have to go up to Douglas before turning south...and Douglas is more than busy enough already.

 

And an odd side effect of closing Wharf without turning Government St around would be that the block of Government in front of the Empress would de facto become one-way northbound, as there'd be no way to get onto it going south (other than exiting the hotel itself).

[rjag]

Funny reading all the comments about Wharf. I think this was over thought. Ride the lane up Pandora to Govt and turn right, take away 1 parking lane on the west side of Govt to View and then 1 moving lane to Humboldt. 

 

Restrict Govt between Humboldt to View to cross traffic only and close it to thru traffic except deliveries 6-noon May to October and use the rest of the day to try your outdoor cafe experiment

 

Too late for that now

[Victoria Watcher]

to paraphrase adam stirling on cfax friday:

 

"some of the new bike lanes work ok and some of the bike lanes are wharf street"  

[Mike K.]

Lol. That was good.

[rmpeers]

Reading the back and forth letters in the TC, I was struck again by how dysfunctional the whole conversation is. A number of the people criticizing the lanes are calling them our for specific design issues; whereas the usual reposnse on the pro side is "you don't like bike lanes."

I think until the pro lane folks can admit that there are design flaws in the current Biktoria lanes, this conversation is never going to get anywhere.

[Mike K.]

My personal take from an all-users-of-the-road safety perspective:

terrible

poor

neutral

good

very good

 

Pandora - neutral - it suffers from many driveways requiring passing through the lanes, and has constricted vehicles lanes to unsafe levels particularly along the 700-block.

 

Fort - good - there are few driveways to contend with, at least at this time (there will be more as more development occurs). Reduced vehicle lane widths are an issue.

 

Wharf - terrible - it's complicated from start to finish, with each interaction with vehicle lanes or pedestrian crossings requiring a different level of comprehension of the design and different forms of interaction between users.

 

Vancouver - poor - from the current design projections, it appears to be following the path of Wharf rather than Fort.

 

Humboldt - neutral - too early to say how it will pan out.

[On the Level]

It depends upon how it is implemented.  A Wharf street bike lane has the potential to introduce issues so severe that it won't last as currently designed.  They (city staff, Helps etc) need to put some real effort towards trying to understand unintended consequences.  There is going to be significant conflict between cyclists and pedestrians on that route.  Has any traffic analysis been done?

 

 

 

I guess the answer was "no".  The passive aggressive decisions on vehicles is expected, but who has the right of way, pedestrians or cyclists? 

[mbjj]

I was driving south on Quadra the other day and at the corner where Island Blue Print is, I had a green light but it's a good thing I was going slowly, as a lady cyclist, let's just say older than me, so maybe late sixties or so, made a left turn on her bike right in front of me to get into the Fort St. bike lane headed into town. She was barely moving so I have no idea what made her turn in front of me as she wasn't hustling to make a quick turn. Scared the dickens out of me though.