598 replies to this topic

[Fairbanks]

Mine is...
"What do you mean Spencer Chandra-Herbert won't be Tourism Minister"?

[Fairbanks]

I took part in the Fed Liberal leadership vote and there has NOT been an issue with security or accuracy in the vote count. I voted online but also had the option of voting by phone.

It's time.

[Layne French]

Read more: http://www.vancouver...l#ixzz2TNGV4C5o

I don't think I've ever witnessed a solid wall of consistent prediction turn out so wrong. Was it the questions asked, the diminishing number of landlines or people telling one thing to a pollster and another thing at the ballot box?

really? this has been talked about nationally for atleast the past 3-4 years. This same thing happened in the Calgary municipal election when Nenshi was elected and provincially when the Redford government destroyed the wildrose... simply put current polling does not appear to be working.

I think it must be a bunch of factors at play here. I know the municipal polling here discounted the role of social media and played up the role of using the old phone book as opposed to simple RDD.

[jonny]

So when Clark talks the talk re Dix and the NDP she should walk the walk.

Oh, I agree.

Now that the election is over, I am really crying in my cereal that we won't be seeing 10% HST in 2014 (i.e. next year).

[Fairbanks]

Oh, I agree.

Now that the election is over, I am really crying in my cereal that we won't be seeing 10% HST in 2014 (i.e. next year).

Well if Clark promised to drop the HST by two points she should follow through when the HST is returned. Trust me, it will be back sooner rather than later.

[sebberry]

I've moved the posts relating to the technical aspects of fracking here:

http://www.vibrantvi...iscussion-6370/

I suspect this will be a developing topic so it will be good to have its own thread, and we can keep this to discussing the election.

Thanks

[Szeven]

When they talking polling numbers, I assume they are talking telephone contact? Could it be that more NDP supporters are willing to talk on the phone, or even have a home phone where their identity can be verified?

[jonny]

I've moved the posts relating to the technical aspects of fracking here:

http://www.vibrantvi...iscussion-6370/

I suspect this will be a developing topic so it will be good to have its own thread, and we can keep this to discussing the election.

Thanks

^ Sorry!

So, lots of people talking about what happened and how nobody saw a Liberal win coming. My read on this is as follows.

Just over a week ago, voters began to connect the dots on the populist campaign promises the NDP and Mr. Dix were making and realized things didn't add up. There were several spending increases promised, but all new growth opportunities were either to be cancelled or studied to death.

The key moment was when Mr. Dix went from pragmatic (we'll wait until an application is made and an environmental review is done) to populist (we don't want this project) on the Kinder Morgan pipeline expansion proposal. At that point people realized he was the same old NDP.

From that moment, the Liberals began making large gains in the polls and the NDP was forced to change their message, another flip flop, that further eroded voter confidence in Mr. Dix.

The editorial in this mornings province nailed it.

Where Dix repeatedly refused to give clear answers to basic questions, Clark was direct. Where she acknowledged past mistakes of her party, in Dix’s world, the NDP is without flaws. Where Clark was warm and engaging, Dix was jumpy, combative and condescending.

Now, for Clark she has to switch from campaign mode, which she has been in for two years now, to management mode.

Some things I'd like to see from Clark are for her to get things rolling again on land claims so the resource sector can keep driving the BC economy.

She also needs to kiss and make up with Redford and get the pipelines built. That will put more pressure on Obama to quit waffling on Keystone. Then we can have Canadian resources with export gateways west and south and maybe even east. Aren't the pipelines the equivalent for Canadian growth that the rail roads were a hundred years ago?

The NDP is the party that needs "Change for the Better". It needs a total rebranding to move it away from the federal party, which is not all that popular in BC. It needs to move more to the centre, and not be seen as the leftist, socialist brand.

[jonny]

There are now three Liberal MLAs who are paralyzed and require the use of wheelchairs: Sam Sullivan, Michelle Stilwell and Stephanie Cadieux.

Can't say I've ever seen that before! There is also a Conservative MP from Manitoba who needs a wheelchair. Is the BC Legislature wheelchair accessible?

[Mike K.]

But if the NDP moves away from being leftist and socialist they'll disenfranchise their core supporters. That would derail the party to the likes of the BC Cons.

The NDP's way of doing things has come and gone in this province. The 1990's were an absolutely disaster and many still (luckily) remember how fragile the economy was and how many youth had to go elsewhere to make a living.

Look at what's happening in Victoria with the constant political see-sawing, study after study, complaints over promising projects like Northern Junk, questionable management of limited financial resources, and the bowing to the status quo. This is an NDP stronghold with tentacles in all levels of government and had we elected the NDP last night this mentality would have blanketed the rest of the province.

[jonny]

But if the NDP moves away from being leftist and socialist they'll disenfranchise their core supporters. That would derail the party to the likes of the BC Cons.

I disagree. Look at what the Federal Conservatives had to do to become mainstream and electable. The party largely had to abandon some of their key ideology like abortion and same sex marriage in order to become electable. They adapted and moved to the centre. Canada and BC are largely middle ground kind of places.

Look at what's happening in Victoria with the constant political see-sawing, study after study, complaints over promising projects like Northern Junk, questionable management of limited financial resources, and the bowing to the status quo. This is an NDP stronghold with tentacles in all levels of government and had we elected the NDP last night more of this is what we'd have seen this sort of mentality blanket the rest of the province.

Cannot disagree with this. When so much time is spent studying and hand wringing, when is their actually time to get things done?

To be fair, the Liberals are not immune to this stuff either. Look no further than the endless studies, consultations and reviews of BC Ferries.

[AllseeingEye]

^ Sorry!

So, lots of people talking about what happened and how nobody saw a Liberal win coming. My read on this is as follows.

Just over a week ago, voters began to connect the dots on the populist campaign promises the NDP and Mr. Dix were making and realized things didn't add up. There were several spending increases promised, but all new growth opportunities were either to be cancelled or studied to death.

The key moment was when Mr. Dix went from pragmatic (we'll wait until an application is made and an environmental review is done) to populist (we don't want this project) on the Kinder Morgan pipeline expansion proposal. At that point people realized he was the same old NDP.

From that moment, the Liberals began making large gains in the polls and the NDP was forced to change their message, another flip flop, that further eroded voter confidence in Mr. Dix.

The editorial in this mornings province nailed it.



Now, for Clark she has to switch from campaign mode, which she has been in for two years now, to management mode.

Some things I'd like to see from Clark are for her to get things rolling again on land claims so the resource sector can keep driving the BC economy.

She also needs to kiss and make up with Redford and get the pipelines built. That will put more pressure on Obama to quit waffling on Keystone. Then we can have Canadian resources with export gateways west and south and maybe even east. Aren't the pipelines the equivalent for Canadian growth that the rail roads were a hundred years ago?

The NDP is the party that needs "Change for the Better". It needs a total rebranding to move it away from the federal party, which is not all that popular in BC. It needs to move more to the centre, and not be seen as the leftist, socialist brand.

Interesting take Jonny; while many pundits last night were certainly speculating about the need for an NDP "re-branding" none I saw referenced a centrist move, but instead wondered if certain elements within the party wouldn't try for a sharp turn to the Left which IMO would be deadly if you are an NDP supporter. I think after they gang mugged Carole James in 2010 the first of many strategic mistakes thereafter was installing Dix over Farnworth....

[Fairbanks]

I agree with Allseeingeye. I forgot about the Carole James "event". Farnworth is a goof tho.

I am willing to bet that Carole will be back in the driver's seat before long.

She has never held so much power as she does at this moment.

Here's to bearing witness to so many good strong women ascending to power.

https://www.youtube....h?v=OPvYqkz9sqE

[phx]

My take on the results: faced with a tough decision, the voters chose the devil they knew.

[VicHockeyFan]

My take on the results: faced with a tough decision, the voters chose the devil they knew.

I think that's fair.

I mean, I'm hearing all these people saying the NDP voters did not go out and vote because they thought it was in the bag. But doesn't that apply to Liberal or Green voters too? Wouldn't they also stay home thinking they had lost?

[Bingo]

The commentators didn't talk too much about the votors who voted Green instead of NDP. In many cases those votes would have given the NDP a victory in more ridings.

As for Dix, I have always thought that John Horgan would have been a better choice as leader.

Andrew Weaver is the one to watch, and I predict he will be leader of the party within the year. If he performs well I think you could see MLA's crossing the floor to the Green Party before the next election.

[Wally]

I agree with Allseeingeye. I forgot about the Carole James "event". Farnworth is a goof tho.

I am willing to bet that Carole will be back in the driver's seat before long.

She has never held so much power as she does at this moment.

Here's to bearing witness to so many good strong women ascending to power.

https://www.youtube....h?v=OPvYqkz9sqE

I tend to agree. It looks to me like James and a few others may have actually been working to undermine Dix during the last few weeks of the election in order to allow a Liberal win and a chance for them to retake power in the NDP.

[VicHockeyFan]

As for Dix, I have always thought that John Horgan would have been a better choice as leader.

I used to like Horgan too, but the more I listen to him, the more he's the same old NDPer, who can not admit that anything the Liberals do is even remotely positive.

Andrew Weaver is the one to watch, and I predict he will be leader of the party within the year. If he performs well I think you could see MLA's crossing the floor to the Green Party before the next election.

Oh, I don't think so. The NDP is a machine, and the Greens have nothing like it. I don't think anyone is going to abandon the NDP machine for the financial uncertainty of the Greens. A new NDP leader (I think they must get a new one after this defeat) will make the NDP MLAs have new enthusiasm.

[Holden West]

But even as the Liberals watched their own chances improve, they had to wonder. The New Democrats had access to the same calibre of polling data as the Liberals. They must be picking up on the swing as well. But there was no sign of them making any significant moves to reverse the trend in favour of the Liberals.

“We sat around asking ourselves that every evening,” as one senior Liberal strategist put it. “How could they not see what we were seeing?”

Read more: http://www.vancouver...l#ixzz2TT5NME3h

That's the key question. Were NDP info-gatherers more interested in pleasing the leadership with positive news?

Compare this with the recent US presidential campaign where the Democrats had precise polling information while the republicans stumbled to oblivion, not aware the tide had changed dramatically for them, and they lacked the tools to even fix it.

[mysage]

I used to like Horgan too, but the more I listen to him, the more he's the same old NDPer, who can not admit that anything the Liberals do is even remotely positive.



Oh, I don't think so. The NDP is a machine, and the Greens have nothing like it. I don't think anyone is going to abandon the NDP machine for the financial uncertainty of the Greens. A new NDP leader (I think they must get a new one after this defeat) will make the NDP MLAs have new enthusiasm.

Both the Greens and the NDP are social change movements masquerading as political parties. It is not suprising that the NDP is rarely voted into power and anyone who thinks that the Greens are capable of actually running a provincial government is dreaming. I am not saying that the Liberals are the best option, it is just that they (or versions of themselves) are the only options and have formed the government in this province for years and years for a reason. This is not lost on the voters. Our system of government is far better than what we see to the south of us as it has checks and balances and both the NDP and the Greens serve those positions well. Just don't expect them to be more than they are.