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The More Victoria Changes, the More It Stays the Same...

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#561 LJ

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Posted 18 May 2021 - 07:45 PM



But it's the same old cost/benefit story. Who cares if it can go twice as fast as a ferry? It's something to ponder as you fly overhead in a Dash-8 at 400 mph.

I don't want to be flying in your Dash-8.

Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#562 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 19 May 2021 - 05:57 AM

the big dash 8 goes over 400 mph.

#563 Rob Randall

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Posted 19 May 2021 - 06:21 AM

My point is there's basically only two ways of getting people over the water. Pack them all cheaply into a big steel tub and slowly steam your way across or put a few in an expensive 400 mph aluminum tube. Any attempt at combining the two technologies just gets you the worst of both worlds. 

#564 Sparky



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Posted 19 May 2021 - 06:31 AM

^ Fast Cat Ferries come to mind. They said it couldn’t be done... and they were right.
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#565 Mike K.

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Posted 19 May 2021 - 06:33 AM

Now the same crew are handling our housing industry.
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#566 LJ

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Posted 19 May 2021 - 07:51 PM

the big dash 8 goes over 400 mph.

Not quite.


https://prijet.com/p...ier dash 8-q400

Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#567 Rob Randall

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Posted 19 May 2021 - 09:00 PM

OK, so not quite 400 mph, especially on the Victoria/Vancouver run but my point is, uh, I forgot my point but my point stands whatever it was.

#568 Sparky



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Posted 19 May 2021 - 09:53 PM

^ That was funny.

#569 RPPB

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Posted 19 May 2021 - 10:21 PM

The Q400 actually cruises at 414mph, Rob is correct. But the hovercraft eliminates the need for a shuttle bus at either end...

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#570 LJ

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Posted 20 May 2021 - 08:05 PM

Maximum cruise is the speed the aircraft can fly at its optimal altitude where the air is thinner. Average cruise is calculated by taking an average trip length and takes into account the climb, speed limit, cruise and descent speeds. Long range cruise is the speed required to attain the maximum range.

Maximum Cruise: 393 mph
Average Cruise: 393 mph
Long Range Cruise: 365 mph

Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#571 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 21 May 2021 - 01:40 AM

it looks like that hovercraft could eliminate the need for the gondola at Royal bay. And could pull right up onto the legislature lawn at this end. that would be a more impressive display than the harbour ferry ballet.

#572 aastra

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Posted 06 May 2022 - 03:59 PM

Some items repeated from the Harris Green Village thread:




Here's yet another amazing old news item that conclusively demonstrates how "the more Victoria changes, the more it stays the same":



Daily Colonist
February 22, 1950

Suggestions on Welfare Centre Site Welcomed by Spencer Foundation

The Spencer Foundation is "definitely open" to suggestions as to an alternative site for its proposed $100,000 welfare centre...

For a week, City Council has been bombarded with protests against its decision to let the Foundation build the centre on Pandora Green.

...the green is not city property, and it was beyond the council's power to allow construction on the green.


Citizens, and EVEN AN OAK BAY RESIDENT (aastra says: Wow! EVEN an Oak Bay resident!), have protested council's action on the grounds that THE GREEN SHOULD BE PRESERVED AS ONE OF THE FEW OPEN SPACES IN THE CITY CENTRE.

But apparently the green is Crown property, and owes its existence to a town-planner's mistake.

The first plan of Victoria -- drawn in 1859 by H.O. Tiedemann -- shows the green as simply a triangular strip of land in the centre of Pandora Avenue.

...some sections of the city had earlier been subdivided into lots. Then a 100-acre section of land north of Johnson Street, on what was then the outskirts of town, was subdivided into five-acre "suburban" lots.

When the early planners fitted the suburban 100-acre section into an overall map of the town, they found the sections didn't join evenly.

Narrow triangles of land were left on what is now Arena Way and between Johnson and Pandora.

Legally, the land was part of the streets... and as such was Crown property.

(Section 346 of the Municipal Act declares the Crown owns all streets in any municipality which, like Victoria, does not have a private act.)

For a long time, no improvements were made to the Pandora triangle. It was once used as a dump for old drain pipes... Shortly before the Great War, it was sown to grass and later became known as Harris Green, after Thomas Harris, first mayor of Victoria.

The land is still Crown-owned... and cannot be transferred to the city without approval of the lieutenant-governor-in-council.

City Hall sources indicated there was little likelihood the Provincial Government would consent to building of a welfare centre on Pandora Green.

Mr. Barraclough said last night the Spencer Foundation is "waiting for the critics to bring forward suggestions."

He said the site "should be IN A PROMINENT PLACE (aastra says: political priorities should always be top priorities) TO REMIND CITIZENS OF THEIR DUTY TO THE COMMUNITY, should be close enough downtown to be used, and SHOULD BE IN THE CENTRE OF THE POPULATION TO MAKE IT AVAILABLE TO THE GREATEST NUMBER OF PEOPLE."


So... in the year 2022 would it still make sense to place such services in the centre of the population? You know, to make the services available to the greatest number of people? Maybe around Uptown or in View Royal or someplace like that?


(crickets chirping)





Daily Colonist
October 26, 1979

Harris Green blueprint before council

"Urban recycling" of 12 blocks bounded by Pandora, Cook, Fort and Blanshard is recommended in a study approved by Victoria city council...

"This concept for a new neighborhood rising on the eastern edge of downtown could have an important impact for the quality of the city's environment in the next quarter century," according to the study.

The new community, Harris Green, of more than 6,000 apartments and condominiums, would provide a "new pedestrian oriented lifestyle option."

Landscaped walkways would allow residents to reach downtown jobs, shopping and other facilities including the "hub of the transit network" on foot.

Objective of Harris Green would be to establish a high-density resident population along with complementary land uses within an attractive and viable environment.

Development would include a mix of public and private sector housing that would take care of a broad mix of income groups in order to avoid ghetto environments. (aastra says: until the future day when politicians decide the effort to include a broad mix has been too successful, thus motivating them to tip the scales back toward the "ghetto" end of the spectrum.)

There should be enough open space to meet leisure needs, while traditional landmarks and heritage buildings should be preserved (aastra says: the old Open Door building and the St. Louis/St. Andrew's school building on Pandora, for example)

Redevelopment of the area, the report said, WOULD REVITALIZE THE DOWNTOWN COMMERCIAL AREA (aastra says: until the future day when politicians decide to make open war against the downtown commercial area), and would also relieve redevelopment pressures on neighborhood conservation areas like Fairfield and James Bay. (aastra says: until the future day when politicians embrace the idea of "the missing middle" and thus begin stoking redevelopment pressures on the neighborhoods like never before)





Daily Colonist
September 24, 1972

...mistakes that became a blessing

by Jean Estes

Victoria's first official map, completed in 1858 by Joseph Despard Pemberton, the colonial surveyor, did show a three-block-long gore in Pandora's street allowance -- starting at Quadra and ending at Chambers where the survey terminated at that time. But there's no recorded explanation of the triangle's origin, so perhaps it was the result of a surveyor's boo-boo. Anyway, here's the story of its development into three lovely, connecting greens.

As early as 1871 the city council discussed planting shade trees along Pandora, but owing to lack of funds many years elapsed before any improvements were made.

...presumably city council was hopeful of beautification of the Pandora gore, and in March, 1901 the city engineer and city assessor presented a plan for turning the proposed Pandora park area into flower beds. However, that scheme met with considerable opposition from taxpayers and the plan was tabled.

No progress was made until 1909, when concerned property owners banded together and petitioned the civic authorities to "establish a park, particularly where the roadway broadened between Cook and Chambers streets."

...Alderman Bannerman gave notice he would move at the next city council meeting "that the city engineer be instructed to prepare a plan for laying out the eastern portion of Pandora Avenue from Vancouver Street easterly as a recreation park..."

...a plan was submitted which called for "a walk down the centre with shade trees and flower beds for the lower section. The wider part of the gore -- between Chambers and Cook -- would have curving sidewalks throughout the area, shade trees, flower beds, grass and shrubbery."

"At the upper end would be a fountain where there is considerable rock and the water which would find its way down the incline to a pond about 50 feet in diameter situation midway between Cook and Chambers."

Evidently that plan was too costly as a modified one was adopted, and only the upper section laid out in 1910. Holly trees were planted along the Chambers Street edge, two rows of shade trees put in and grass seeded.

A word here about those leaf trees. They're sycamore maple or plane trees, as many people know them, and American beech. Although neither are native to this area they have withstood well Victoria's frequent high winds.

For many years the parks enjoyed a quiet, uneventful existence. And then in 1950 Harris Green, as the upper section was then unofficially known, hit the news -- when the Chris Spencer Foundation applied to the city to purchase part of the land, for construction of a $100,000 welfare house.

For weeks a storm of public protest raged. Dedication of Harris Green as a permanent park was requested of the city by First Church of Christ, Scientist, 1205 Pandora Avenue, but while searching for a title to the property the city discovered that none existed. The three connecting greens are part of what was originally surveyed for street use and as such are not saleable.

On Sept. 25, 1959 the name of the top green became official...

During the early 1960s an outcropping of rock halfway up Harris Green was landscaped with low, spreading evergreen shrubs -- and sturdy, modernistic benches were placed in all three parks.

The benches provide a place to relax out-of-doors for a variety of people -- retired residents of surrounding apartments, patients awaiting appointments at the nearby Medical Arts centre, grocery-laden customers of Wellburn's super mart, and backpacking, youthful travelers.

In 1969 two beds of bright, orange-red firefly roses were put in near the top of Pandora's smallest connecting green -- the wedge-shaped one between Quadra and Vancouver. In 1970 a third bed was added and filled with velvety, deep-red Palm Springs roses, a gift from our sister city, Palm Springs, California.

These small parks are a constant delight to those of us who enjoy their beauty daily. A neighbor who was moving from our district recently remarked: "When my wife and I decided to buy a condominium, it took two years to find one that has as pleasant an outlook as our apartment facing Harris Green.

And now that the main artery of Pandora is being prepared for one-way traffic, further changes to the greens have become necessary. But thanks to careful planning, not a tree has been sacrificed nor a rose bed removed, and so Pandora's beautification will continue to be a blessing to this area of near-downtown Victoria.

Edited by aastra, 06 May 2022 - 05:20 PM.


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