959 replies to this topic

[spanky123]

Claiming it was coincidental is hardly an answer for the crews who have stay safe on the high seas. There could be a coincidence that all the upgrades might have been done by the same contractor installing the same equipment on similar frigates based in Esquimalt.

 

They will tell us the truth once they have finished with their investigation of the fire in Protecteur!

 

If these fires really occurred as they claim, they would be looking for similar problems with other ships in the same class and for safety reasons likely taking them out of service while that happened. If they don't do that work as a precaution, then it tells you that they are probably not telling us the truth.

[Mike K.]

This morning there was a fire drill pretending a hydraulic system malfunctioned aboard HMCS Victoria (one of the subs) and responding fire crews had to douse the torpedo bays.

[AllseeingEye]

Of course they did: "Failed bidder files trade challenge against Ottawa's frigate design pick" 

 

- https://www.cbc.ca/n...court-1.4916881

 

Honestly is there any other nation that so predictably, indisputably !and repetitiously! gets its wrong time after time after time when it comes to its military policies and its procurement practices above all?

 

This one has all the stench of the Sea King debacle (remember that: half a billion dollars wasted in contract penalty fees - thank you for that Msr. Chretien - and then nearly 30 years to replace some_helicopters??); as well as the ridiculous controversy currently surrounding the F-18 fighter replacement (whatever that turns out to be...). Yep the Hornets are aging and badly outclassed by most other air force front line planes so the Canadian 'solution' is to plug the gap with equally old Australian aircraft of the same vintage while we continue to waffle and dilly dally because a decade into the process we still can't decide or agree on a permanent replacement. Sigggggggh.....

 

At the end of the day the RCN will be lucky to have a few kayak's and perhaps some canoe's armed with machine guns fulfilling our NATO/treaty obligations and patrolling our sovereign waters. With regard to things military we really are a nation of Keystone Kops playing Russian Roulette while engaged in a Chinese Fire Drill.....

[Mattjvd]

The CH 124 Sea King was officially retired after 55 years of serive and had their final flight today. A ceremony was held at 443 Maritime Helicopter Squadren at YYJ today.

Edited by Mattjvd, 01 December 2018 - 03:16 PM.

[Lorenzo]

The CH 124 Sea King was officially retired after 55 years of serive and had their final flight today. A ceremony was held at 443 Maritime Helicopter Squadren at YYJ today.

I was at Clover Point this morning as they did a three chopper flypast. Pretty impressive. Managed to snap a few pictures. Going to miss them.

[AllseeingEye]

Was out and about walking off some of that Christmas turkey with Mrs ASE at Ogden Point, and snapped a few pics of the MV Asterix, the RCN stop gap fleet replenishment ship until we build the two *real* replacements for the Provider and Protecteur.

 

She is a nice looking ship and by RCN standards a big one - but in true Chinese Fire Drill-Canadian fashion - inasmuch as she was civilian designed as a container ship originally (later converted by Canada for the navy, hence the designation as MV and not "HMCS"), she has limited to no ability to sustain damage in a shooting situation; the ship also lacks any installed self-defense weapons systems, although there are provisions should the need arise. These issues prevent the ship from being deployed to hazardous combat areas.

 

Note the Christmas tree forward in a couple of these pics - paid for presumably by the Canadian taxpayer. Guess they don't subscribe to the Ben Isitt theory of 'public' religious symbolism. And no sighting of Ben down there today either....

 

 

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[LJ]

^Provider had no armaments either, she (sometimes) had helicopters that could be armed with torpedoes but nothing built in.

 

It was also built to civilian standards, no extra protections there either.

[AllseeingEye]

Yup which was partially my point; almost all other navies' replenishment ships have at the minimum some combination of CIWS or Bofors, Oerlikon or even surface to air weapons in the case of the Berlin-class ships of the German Navy.

 

Not sure why we insist on not following suit like the RN, USN, the Kreigsmarine and other major navies. HMAS Sirius was like Asterix a civilian tanker purchased by HMAS well over a decade ago and at least features various calibre machine guns it can bring to bear.

 

I guess we want to uphold our reputation as the World's Nice Guy nation. More likely I'm guessing its typical Canadian military budget-related bs.

 

However by definition in the event of bad things happening internationally on the high seas - and a 'situation' can change mighty quickly in a world run by the Putin's, the Jong Un's and the Trump's - these ships may well find themselves one day caught right smack in the middle of the s*** - and then what are they supposed to do? Hope the other side plays nice, calls a time out and allows the Canucks to slink home?

[Mattjvd]

The recently retired Protecteur class were not unarmed. They had 2 CIWS, 6 .50 Cal machine guns, 4 chaff launchers, and a towed acoustic decoy for submarine defence.

A pretty good suite of defensive weaponry.

[AllseeingEye]

Protecteur was nevertheless also the victim of our infamous military procurement system: she was supposed to get NATO-badged Sea Sparrow anti ship missiles but didn't due to that thoroughly broken and inefficient procurement process. Remember too she only got the CIWS prior to deployment to the Persian Gulf in 1991. She however at least had some Bofors, chaff and the (torpedo decoy) nixie for defence. Poor old Provider had zip beyond the helicopter-borne MOD torpedoes.

 

Thankfully the two new Protecteur-class ships coming out of the NSP will have CIWS installed from the get go, along with other defensive capabilities:

[spanky123]

Protecteur was nevertheless also the victim of our infamous military procurement system: she was supposed to get NATO-badged Sea Sparrow anti ship missiles but didn't due to that thoroughly broken and inefficient procurement process. Remember too she only got the CIWS prior to deployment to the Persian Gulf in 1991. She however at least had some Bofors, chaff and the (torpedo decoy) nixie for defence. Poor old Provider had zip beyond the helicopter-borne MOD torpedoes.

 

Thankfully the two new Protecteur-class ships coming out of the NSP will have CIWS installed from the get go, along with other defensive capabilities:

 

You sure that Protecteur was supposed to get offensive weapons? I thought that there was some deal about the status of supply ships based on their weaponry.

[Mike K.]

Asterix is also the only vessel in the Canadian navy to be crewed by civilians (along with an active military component).

[AllseeingEye]

You sure that Protecteur was supposed to get offensive weapons? I thought that there was some deal about the status of supply ships based on their weaponry.

Spanky the Sea Sparrow is not considered an offensive weapon. Its primary function in a defensive capacity is to shoot down incoming hostile aircraft or other anti ship missiles.

 

Its too short range for starters - less than 20 kilometers if memory serves - among other things to be considered an offensive threat. And although it continues to be produced and evolve technically, the basic technology underpinning this missile dates from the 60's. All that and the fact the explosive warhead is comparatively small combine to relegate it clearly to the category of a defensive weapon.

[LJ]

The Provider traveled with picket ships around her that were supposed to be the protection package during exercises.

[spanky123]

Spanky the Sea Sparrow is not considered an offensive weapon. Its primary function in a defensive capacity is to shoot down incoming hostile aircraft or other anti ship missiles.

 

Its too short range for starters - less than 20 kilometers if memory serves - among other things to be considered an offensive threat. And although it continues to be produced and evolve technically, the basic technology underpinning this missile dates from the 60's. All that and the fact the explosive warhead is comparatively small combine to relegate it clearly to the category of a defensive weapon.

 

You described them as anti-ship missiles which is why I asked :-)

[Rob Randall]

Lately the most pertinent danger facing today's navy is the ship's own captain.

[Rob Randall]

A long-form feature on the USS Fitzgerald collision. It's the best thing you will read today.

 

https://features.pro...-crash-crystal/

At impact, the Crystal’s prow punched into another sleeping compartment, this one occupied by a single man: Cmdr. Bryce Benson, the 40-year-old captain of the Fitzgerald.

 

Benson’s cabin lay high above the surface of the ocean, four decks above his sailors in Berthing 2. The Crystal had pierced the Fitzgerald’s hull right at the foot of Benson’s bed. It crushed together the bedroom and office of his stateroom like a wad of tinfoil.

The collision jolted Benson awake. Metal ductwork had fallen on him. He was bleeding from the head. He tried to get up from his bed but could not. He was trapped, buried amid a tangle of steel and wires. He clutched the quilt his wife had sewn him, its blue and white squares forming the image of a warship.

 

The cabin was cold and dark. He felt air rush past him. With a shock, Benson realized he was staring at the Pacific. The tear in his cabin’s wall had left Benson with a 140-degree view of dark water and dark sky. He could make out lights from the distant shore of Japan.

 

 

It reminded me a lot of the Queen of the North sinking. Moments of bravery but also a lot of incompetence from top to bottom.

[lanforod]

Thanks for that. Well written and intriguing.

[VANRIDERFAN]

This is the follow-up article to the one linked by Rob Randall. There were warnings for years that the USN was heading for a precipice if it didn't change its ways. Like many things it takes death and embarrassment to force change.  

 

"When Vice Adm. Joseph Aucoin was elevated to lead the vaunted 7th Fleet in 2015, he expected it to be the pinnacle of his nearly four-decade Navy career. The fleet was the largest and most powerful in the world, and its role as one of America’s great protectors had new urgency. China was expanding into disputed waters. And Kim Jong-un was testing ballistic missiles in North Korea.

Aucoin was bred on such challenges. As a Navy aviator, he’d led the “Black Aces,” a squadron of F-14 Tomcats that in the late 1990s bombed targets in Kosovo.

But what he found with the 7th Fleet alarmed and angered him.

 

The fleet was short of sailors, and those it had were often poorly trained and worked to exhaustion. Its warships were falling apart, and a bruising, ceaseless pace of operations meant there was little chance to get necessary repairs done. The very top of the Navy was consumed with buying new, more sophisticated ships, even as its sailors struggled to master and hold together those they had. The Pentagon, half a world away, was signing off on requests for ships to carry out more and more missions.

The risks were obvious, and Aucoin repeatedly warned his superiors about them. During video conferences, he detailed his fleet’s pressing needs and the hazards of not addressing them. He compiled data showing that the unrelenting demands on his ships and sailors were unsustainable. He pleaded with his bosses to acknowledge the vulnerability of the 7th Fleet.

Aucoin recalled the response: “Crickets.” If he wasn’t ignored, he was put off — told to calm down and get the job done."

 

The rest can be read here.

https://features.pro...n-cause-mccain/

[Victoria Watcher]

Major rescue off Sooke is real incident, not part of training: Coast Guard

 

https://www.vicnews....ng-coast-guard/