351 replies to this topic

[Nparker]

The good thing (if one can call it that) about this "greening" plan is that it shouldn't be too costly to tear it out and start over in the future if anyone with real vision ever gets the initiative.

[Rob Randall]

^There's an architectural term for that: "ground cover" (borrowed from landscaping terminology). Just something simple and temporary before something more significant is installed.

 

The present use itself, parking lots, was ground cover: a half-century of "temporary" use after the ship's warehousing era.

Edited by Rob Randall, 21 July 2017 - 09:27 AM.

[Nparker]

...Just something simple and temporary before something more significant is installed.

And in Victoria, simple and temporary rarely lasts more than 50-60 years.

[Cassidy]

I wouldn't get too worked up over the utter lack of concept, and childish efforts at outdoor architecture shown in this "proposal".

No surprise at the lack of vision, as the design basically came directly out of City Hall, presumably from the mind(s) of some City functionaries incapable of designing something impressive.

 

It won't happen anyway.

 

What likely will happen is something that is based largely on what's presently in place at Ship Point, in other words, something resembling a Ship Point "clean-up", with a few new benches and new garbage cans ... perhaps some new lighting, and some sort of effort to utilize the lawn and "amphitheatre" hill better than it's utilized right now.

 

But the parking lot, the massive wall, and much of the other infrastructure currently in place, will no doubt remain in place for at least the duration of this current cabal of boobs we call Victoria City Council.

After going largely broke building the bridge and the pool, anybody who thinks there's any City money left for a project like this (as insipid a design as it is) is probably dreaming.

 

Utterly disappointing design, and (sadly), utterly predictable.

[Nparker]

Well said Cassidy. My thoughts exactly.

[punk cannonballer]

The concept rendering is wildly out of scale. If you look at the event stage area, the dots designed to represent people are ridiculously inaccurate. That whole mass of dots in front of the stage is, in reality, less than 50m across. Same goes for the buildings on the west side of the site. Look at the existing background buildings for an idea of the scale. It's a pet peeve of mine to have completely unrealistic first-cut renderings.

I liked the 'B' concept from the memo - large building and defined event space.

Edited by punk cannonballer, 21 July 2017 - 02:40 PM.

[Bingo]

But the parking lot, the massive wall, and much of the other infrastructure currently in place, will no doubt remain in place for at least the duration of this current cabal of boobs we call Victoria City Council.

 

"Cabal of boobs"...has to be the best description of council in the history of the city. 

[G-Man]

Just finished my latest blog post on these lots after going to the open house today. Have a look! http://www.sidewalki...point-lots.html

[Nparker]

Complete the CoV's online Ship Point survey folks. There may still be a chance to make this space all that it could be and not the underwhelming oversized playing field/parking lot that is being proposed.

[On the Level]

No parking......fine.  Where will it go?  Langford?  

[amor de cosmos]

before & after



- i don't care about an urban beach but that's just me
- i like the expanded connection to the red fish blue fish area
- won't have to park in langford, there will still be parking, just under that building on wharf st
- the grand staircase & area around the wharf st pavilion is a giant stramp
- the rest of wharf st looks great. that homecoming plaza is basically extended to the grand staircase & courtney/wharf st plaza, & bike lane is added. that bit will be great
- the reason for the grassed terraces, besides making a good natural amphitheatre, is probably that they won't block sightlines across the harbour. that was the city's main objection to having a big ferris wheel at ship point. too bad the hillside isn't big enough to be able to use it as an urban ski hill like gallagher park in edmonton. it was a rather popular spot on canada day, so why not make it easier for people to stay by increasing the seating area? they're just building on its strengths and maybe people will be more likely to hang around during the rest of the year. there always seem to be performers, etc farther along the causeway towards belleville, why not have a similar area at ship point
- about the new decking or pavement, that's become a pretty routine way of distinguishing an area from the rest of town & tying it together. just get a load of exhibition road for example
- number of driveways is reduced from 3 to 2 but will probably improve traffic flow anyway & be a more efficient use of space. along the waterfront will also be shared space but I can't tell what, if anything, they will use to keep cars & people separate, maybe bollards or benches
- the after drawing says there will be vertical elements on the pier but doesn't say what. if a ferris wheel would obstruct sightlines, would a row of mast-like flagpoles? because that would look kind of cool
- overall a pretty big improvement & since a lot of it isn't much more than landscaping there's the option of new buildings on the south end in future but for now it looks like they're just building on what the area is already used for. i don't see what the fuss is about

Attached Images

• 

Edited by amor de cosmos, 23 July 2017 - 07:26 AM.

[Daveyboy]

Unfortunately, I see the large amount of green space simply as another area that more homeless will congregate.......with the consequences already apparent through the non actions of our current city council.

[Nparker]

The CFAX audience isn't keen on at last one aspect of the Ship Point proposal

 

http://www.iheartradio.ca/cfax-1070

[DavidSchell]

The CFAX audience isn't keen on at last one aspect of the Ship Point proposal

ship-point question.JPG

 

http://www.iheartradio.ca/cfax-1070

 

I am sure all 10 that voted no really represent the general sentiment for this project

 

Online polls should never be taken seriously, unless of course you are Donald Trump.

[dasmo]

I think the biggest problem with this is it is going to drive up core real estate values. It's way to pedestrian friendly and will be way too good of a festival venue and harbour airport creating even more demand for AirBnB suites and downtown living....

Edited by dasmo, 24 July 2017 - 12:30 PM.

[Nparker]

I am sure all 10 that voted no really represent the general sentiment for this project...

I agree that CFAX polls tend to be utterly unscientific, but it was still interesting to see how lopsided the results were, not to mention the specificity of the question asked i.e. "urban beach" when that constitutes such a small portion of the proposal. The better question might be: "Is there good taxpayer value in adding additional green space to the inner harbour area?"

[Rob Randall]

I'm not ruling out the possibility of a cool small urban beach. I've seen a few in France and Italy and they're pretty cool. There's no reason why it couldn't be incorporated into any concept. Maybe only 30 feet wide.

[Mike K.]

For gosh sake. Can't Victorians walk across their soon-to-be completed* $120-million bridge to the, you know, urban beach that sits at the foot of the Delta Hotel? It's empty 99.9% of the time, save for Canadian Geese and the odd drunken frat boy get-together for a night cap on a Saturday, so you've got your pick of location to setup your beach parasol and blanket.

*the CoV reserves the right to define the word soon.

[Mike K.]

In fact, there are three such beaches near the Delta within seconds of each other.

And what about the public realm improvements we're paying for as part of the new bridge? Have those already been forgotten and have been relegated to horribly under-built and non-functional versions of themselves because we can't afford to actually build them?

[Nparker]

And how about that giant plaza adjacent to the Delta? Does it get much use relative to its size? The last time I saw any sort of a crowd there on a regular basis, they were gathered to watch the nightly fireworks during the 1994 Commonwealth Games. So much public space around the harbour and so little of it well-designed or used.