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Should Government Street become a pedestrian boulevard?

Government st Poll Pedestrian new urbanism Government street pedestrian mall

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Poll: Should Government street become a pedestrian boulevard (99 member(s) have cast votes)

Should Government street become a pedestrian boulevard from Yates street to Humbolt street (Allowing restricted single lane traffic)?

  1. Yes (61 votes [61.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 61.62%

  2. No (26 votes [26.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.26%

  3. Depends (12 votes [12.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.12%

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#1 dasmo

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 11:44 PM

Proposed Government Pedestrian Boulevard in Orange
- Reduced vehicle access lane down to one car width
- Landscaping it so it has a contiguous surface with the sidewalk. 
- Only allowing vehicle traffic between the hours of 1:30 AM and 9:30 AM to allow taxi traffic during closing time and delivery trucks in the morning hours and emergency vehicle access.
- Use Rising Bollards on a timer
- Keep the cross streets open: View Street, Broughton St, Fort St.
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Edited by dasmo, 15 July 2015 - 01:53 PM.

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#2 Bingo

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 06:40 AM

I hope the poll worked... shall see once I hit post I guess....

The poll is malfunctioning and records the opposite of what you choose. Try again.



#3 Mike K.

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 07:14 AM

What do you mean?

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#4 Bingo

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 08:42 AM

What do you mean?

I cast a vote and then checked the results and it recorded my vote contrary to the box I selected. I hope this isn't the system they use to elect our politicians. ;)



#5 dasmo

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 09:21 AM

The poll is working fine for me. Just delete your vote and try again to see...

#6 lanforod

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 09:30 AM

Yes, works fine for me.



#7 sebberry

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 09:32 AM

It worked for me. 

 

No, I don't think Government St. needs to be closed.  You need to leave some sort of access for commercial vehicles, deliveries, etc... and you have the issue of the cross streets to deal with. 

 

*IF* we had the population density to make something like this successful full-time, the road would need to be completely closed off to cars and re-designed as a pedestrian-only space.  No delivery vehicles, nada.  Gardens and flowers and fountains and all sorts of things down the middle of the road. 


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#8 johnk

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 09:41 AM

In Eurocities deliveries are allowed until 8 or 10am then its a ped zone. Its a really nice street clogged by cars inching forward and it deserves better in the warm months with long evenings.
If not Government Street, why not Broad Street?
But IMO this city is too timid to consider such a thing.

#9 spanky123

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 09:48 AM

I think that the real issue is that it won't change the outcome. Opening up Government St won't change the retail picture unless you also address issues related to vacancy rates, taxation, parking and density.

 

The caveat to having one of the least affordable cities is that people have the lowest disposable income. If workers can't afford to live downtown and spend money then they are not buying anything there. 


Edited by spanky123, 26 January 2015 - 09:50 AM.

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#10 dasmo

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 10:26 AM

It worked for me. 

 

No, I don't think Government St. needs to be closed.  You need to leave some sort of access for commercial vehicles, deliveries, etc... and you have the issue of the cross streets to deal with. 

 

*IF* we had the population density to make something like this successful full-time, the road would need to be completely closed off to cars and re-designed as a pedestrian-only space.  No delivery vehicles, nada.  Gardens and flowers and fountains and all sorts of things down the middle of the road. 

We have the density. That's like saying we don't have the density to build residential downtown.... Note, my proposal keeps a one lane access with hours open to vehicular traffic at hours appropriate for delivery, and possibly late night taxi. You pave the road the same as the sidewalk with a transition. You have bollards that drop into the ground during access hours (or for emergency access) 

 

The entire reason our downtown is popular is because it is pedestrian friendly. Improving that will help make it a desirably place to visit and live in.  No one is building condo's in strip malls....


Edited by dasmo, 26 January 2015 - 11:06 AM.

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#11 johnk

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 11:42 AM

In European ped zones emergency vehicles have unfettered access, as they should. Commercial deliveries can certainly be arranged within certain time periods. Ped zones are in the city centres where 18-wheelers aren't needed for deliveries, vans are enough.
Ultimately it's a quality of life decision.

#12 sebberry

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 11:45 AM

Just sticking up a few bollards to close the road from 9AM to 2AM doesn't do much to change the landscape of the area.

 

The only way to make it successful is a full-on conversion to a pedestrian mall: rip up the road and redesign the few blocks with various decoration, seating and other pedestrian amenities. 

 

Even that won't be particularly successful until more people are able to live downtown and the stores along the road are more attractive to locals. 


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#13 29er Radio

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 12:18 PM

A full on conversion would be really expensive and there is no real proof that a
pedestrian strip would do anything to help the retailers along Government. Maybe what it needs is less tourist crap, more product that would attract locals as well as tourists.

Downtown suffers from seasonality as much as anything else and wide sidewalks will have little effect on changing a dreary jan/feb day.
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#14 dasmo

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 12:20 PM

 

Government Pedestrian Boulevard
- Reduced vehicle access lane down to one car width
- Landscaping it so it has a contiguous surface with the sidewalk. 
- Only allowing vehicle traffic between the hours of 1:30 AM and 9:30 AM to allow taxi traffic during closing time and delivery trucks in the morning hours and emergency vehicle access.

Edited by dasmo, 26 January 2015 - 12:22 PM.


#15 dasmo

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 12:24 PM

Gotta fight deflation and our downtown is deflating.... 



#16 sebberry

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 12:25 PM

And what changes are going to be made between the current sidewalks to entice more pedestrians and shoppers than there currently are? 

 

Making vehicle access restrictions timed means you can't do much to add amenities above and beyond what is already there. 


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#17 dasmo

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 12:26 PM

A full on conversion would be really expensive and there is no real proof that a
pedestrian strip would do anything to help the retailers along Government. Maybe what it needs is less tourist crap, more product that would attract locals as well as tourists.

Downtown suffers from seasonality as much as anything else and wide sidewalks will have little effect on changing a dreary jan/feb day.

It would be a lot less expensive that all the waterfront parks and parking lot conversions with a much more immediate payback since this is already a known zone and a retail area already....



#18 Mike K.

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 12:27 PM

Maybe downtown deflation is a good thing though. Politicians chalk up success to themselves and spend money on useless endeavours because it's all being paid for. So what will politicians do when downtown decays to the point where they can no longer hide behind the success of others and must own up to the reality that business in this City suffers greatly from high costs, high taxes, high crime, etc?


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#19 dasmo

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 12:30 PM

And what changes are going to be made between the current sidewalks to entice more pedestrians and shoppers than there currently are? 

 

Making vehicle access restrictions timed means you can't do much to add amenities above and beyond what is already there. 

You pave the area to be pedestrian with more a more subtle transition to the SINGLE vehicle lane. So there is more space for patios and more space for wandering. Maybe more stores would chose to stay open late. Then a family or two might go downtown on a weeknight after 6 PM to stroll government and take in the buskers. As it is downtown is left to street people and drunk seekers....  



#20 lanforod

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 12:30 PM

A few mentions of locals not going as the stores don't attract them. Which stores would attract locals better - aren't these all the stores that are currently in the Bay centre?



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