1201 replies to this topic

[G-Man]

I think comparing Government st to an English high street would be a mistake. Government Street is a tourist stretch still. The problem with the city's plan is that they still are trying to appeal to all sides with things like partial closures which IMO leads to less than ideal outcomes. It should be a full 24 hr a day closure for cars and a 4 hour window for commercial delivery in the morning. Full levelling of the street. Also replace trees with taller trees that actually provide a canopy and alternate with high up rain sails that can be opened when necessary in the winter.

[Nparker]

... Full levelling of the street. Also replace trees with taller trees that actually provide a canopy and alternate with high up rain sails that can be opened when necessary in the winter.

This sounds very expensive. My taxes are already sky-high! 

[aastra]

 

This sounds very expensive. My taxes are already sky-high!

 

The CoV will mark you down as being in favour.

[G-Man]

This sounds very expensive. My taxes are already sky-high!

It wouldn't cost more than the current plan and would have a better outcome. I don't feel like property taxes have gone up a lot really.

[Mike K.]

I think comparing Government st to an English high street would be a mistake. Government Street is a tourist stretch still. The problem with the city's plan is that they still are trying to appeal to all sides with things like partial closures which IMO leads to less than ideal outcomes. It should be a full 24 hr a day closure for cars and a 4 hour window for commercial delivery in the morning. Full levelling of the street. Also replace trees with taller trees that actually provide a canopy and alternate with high up rain sails that can be opened when necessary in the winter.

The mayor came back from Europe and said we were doing it all wrong and it had to have a mix of cars and people, so that’s what the City is doing.

I agree though, if you’re going to do it do it right and make it look spectacular. This picnic table stuff just has to go.

[Nparker]

No matter how much money is spent the weather will still be unpleasant close to half the year.

[aastra]

 

...if you’re going to do it do it right and make it look spectacular. This picnic table stuff just has to go.

 

No doubt. All we need is some proper planning and preparation. 50 years and counting.

 

*****

 

 

Daily Colonist
May 29, 1973

Merchants Knock, Praise Concept of Broad Mall

The carnival-like activity on Broad Street during last week's Victorian Days has aroused some controversy among the merchants along the temporary mall.

One merchant says the week-long partial closure of Broad and the complete elimination of parking on the street during that time has been bad for his business. He views the possibility that Broad may someday become a permanent pedestrian mall with some misgivings.

Another merchant, however, says his business may have picked up last week as a result of increased pedestrian traffic. He would like to see Broad Street converted to a permanent mall.

A third merchant says the partial closure last week could have been a success, had it not been botched by poor planning and poor administration.

The merchant who never wants to see a repetition of this year's "debacle" is Donald MacDonald of MacDonald's Furniture Mart... at the corner of Pandora.

What he objected to most of all was the "shoddy arrangement" of cheap stalls, barricades and food stands doing business out of trailers.

"It was a bloody mess. Why didn't they use planters with flowers to block off the street? That's what we were told would be done. Instead there were dozens of cheap barricades from Farmer's Construction..."

"If this is an indication of what a permanently closed Broad Street would look like, they can keep it," he said, referring to Mayor Peter Pollen's statement last week that he hoped Broad would eventually be a pedestrian mall all the way from Fort to city hall.

MacDonald added, "I admit that, probably with the proper planning and preparation, a permanent mall on Broad might be a success, but this brief debacle hasn't helped strengthen my belief."

 

[aastra]

The political contrivance we know as the street closure controversy cannot be separated from the poor planning aspect. Doing it wrong is an essential element, in order to sustain the controversy literally for generations. Same thing for botched public squares. The botching of those public spaces is not accidental, it's intentional. But no worries, they always assure you they'll get it right on maybe the 15th or 20th re-working. All you need to do is forget absolutely everything that you saw and experienced yesterday, so the nonsense can be revived all over again today.

[G-Man]

^ This is perhaps the truest thing you have ever said.

[Mike K.]

I don’t know if we do it wrong, so much as we do it kitsch and ultra budget.

Few cultural things in this city receive the sort of artistic and aesthetic flair of the places Victorians talk about wanting to emulate. I mean we think we’re Paris, or Amsterdam, or some other far-flung cultural mecca but we execute culture like Nanaimo. The mayor went to Europe, saw Stuttgart’s high street, then Government got picnic tables. Maybe more buskers will fix it.

[Nparker]

...we think we’re Paris, or Amsterdam, or some other far-flung cultural mecca but we execute culture like Nanaimo...

The city of Victoria is considerably fewer than 100,000 people (taxpayer base). The CoV on its own can't afford to emulate Paris or Amsterdam. If the rest of the CRD wants to contribute towards the costs of a higher end Government Street makeover, then perhaps its doable.

[Mike K.]

The picnic tables don’t do it for ya, eh?

[Nparker]

The picnic tables don’t do it for ya, eh?

Not without some lovely concrete barriers.

[Spy Black]

The "sidewalk cafe" outside the 7-11 at Broughton and Government had about a dozen or so street folks in it an hour or so ago ... literally a garbage dump with all their carts, bags, garbage, and backpacks (and them).

 

No room for any tourists at those sidewalk tables I'm afraid, and most tourists quickly crossing to the east side of Government Street to avoid having to walk pas this crowd of bums.

 

Let's face it, downtown is a crap hole ... the junk they're scattering along Government Street (and calling it "streetscape") is just that ... JUNK.

Combined with the complete lack of street level law enforcement, the obvious inability to have the two cashiers manning the 7-11to go outside and kick these bums out of the 7-11 sidewalk seating "cafe" ... and the massive number of street folks who occupy such spaces around town ... Mayor and Council have to honestly believe that most of the taxpaying residents of Victoria are also mentally challenged such that Mayor and Council try to tell us all that downtown is "OK", all the while we have VicPD telling us it's essentially Donbas, Ukraine after 7:00pm at night.

 

High Street or Stuttgart my lily white a_ss ... it's 100% East Hastings in Vancouver.

Edited by Spy Black, 29 May 2022 - 06:07 PM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Plans for extending wider sidewalks on Government Street north to Pandora Avenue and adding pedestrian plazas at Courtney Street and Pandora have been  endorsed by Victoria city council at a committee of the whole meeting.

 

The concept for the popular downtown route also includes additional lighting and public art, continuing to limit vehicle traffic to one-way northbound from Courtney to Yates Street, and ongoing horse carriage and car-free periods from Humboldt to View Street, marked with physical barriers like gates or movable bollards.

 

Vehicles are currently not allowed on that stretch from noon until 10 p.m. Bicycles, pedi-cabs, scooters and skateboards would continue to be permitted on the route at all times.

 

In a report to council, city staff said the need for significant upgrades to underground and surface infrastructure presents an opportunity to refresh the design of the north-south artery.

 

One focus is on expanding the existing pedestrian-priority infrastructure north of Yates Street to Pandora Avenue, with wider sidewalks and pedestrian space built in while maintaining two-way vehicle access.

 

 

 

https://www.timescol...-street-5590056

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 16 July 2022 - 03:44 AM.

[Nparker]

Didn't the city just spend a ****load of money and create months of disruption adding bike lanes along Government Street and now they are going to mess it up again?

And for gawd's sake why is a public plaza needed at Pandora - directly adjacent to the city's largest and sketchiest public space, Centennial Square?

[aastra]

You don't understand. The reason why absolutely every initiative fails miserably is because "we didn't go all the way". We have to be willing to go all the way, with everything, regardless of how disastrous the results have been so far.

[Sparky]

^ “Full Send”

full-throttle and with 100% commitment—even if you end up failing.

[aastra]

 

...even if you end up failing.

 

Dude, ESPECIALLY if you end up failing. Ongoing spectacular failure should serve as the fuel to keep on doing the exact same thing, only more so.

 

"We've been blowing it miserably for x years running, so therefore we can't possibly stop and turn around now. If we stop and turn around now then that would be an acknowledgment of our errors and our hubris. Such acknowledgment would obviously be unacceptable. Full speed ahead!"

 

Every program everywhere follows this same pattern.

[mbjj]

Lisa Helps thinks that Victoria is Heidelberg. We've been to Heidelberg. We rented a car in Frankfurt and drove there. Yes, there is a charming central area (we stayed in a hotel there and had to park a few blocks away), but when our rental car needed a minor adjustment, we had to find the VW dealership, which was in an area of urban sprawl, just like we have here. Lisa Helps clearly only saw a tiny portion of Heidelberg.