385 replies to this topic

[tjv]

 

If Europe is the example we're gonna need more roundabouts and traffic circles.  And also much better mass transit (spread that fuel usage over more people) and then people using that mass transit.

Well since people have no clue how to drive in traffic circles here that is a complete and utter waste of time.  I had some idiot cut me off only a few days ago.  For the public knowledge everywhere, the car in the circle has the right of way people!

 

But even i most major cities in Europe and you need to get across town you hop on the major road with little lights and buzz across town.  Plus they all drive like the gas pedal is glued to the floor.  Brakes, we don't need no stinkin brakes!

 

Oh and if MOTH completely controls Douglas and Blanshard in Saanich then I guess Saanich is off the hook.  Ok CoV and MOTH, lets time the stupid lights

Edited by tjv, 10 July 2018 - 04:22 PM.

[DustMagnet]

I tend to drive even faster than i normally would in the 40 zones out of spite. Im not satisfied until Lisa's smiley face sign frowns at me

I was driving on a 30km/h (!) street facing one of those smiley signs and getting a smile from it (it was painful though) when an oncoming car zipped towards the sign and it went into a frown on my side!  Why am I being scowled at?  Jerk-ass sign.

Was that you in the other car?

[DustMagnet]

Well since people have no clue how to drive in traffic circles here that is a complete and utter waste of time.  I had some idiot cut me off only a few days ago.  For the public knowledge everywhere, the car in the circle has the right of way people!

 

But even i most major cities in Europe and you need to get across town you hop on the major road with little lights and buzz across town.  Plus they all drive like the gas pedal is glued to the floor.  Brakes, we don't need no stinkin brakes!

 

Oh and if MOTH completely controls Douglas and Blanshard in Saanich then I guess Saanich is off the hook.  Ok CoV and MOTH, lets time the stupid lights

 

So people would have to be taught.  That's true with every new thing.  You can't just never change anything because it would require some learning.

 

I think it was Italy (maybe France) where originally people outside the circle had the right of way.  A cohort of drivers learned that way then they changed it to what we have now - in the circle has right of way.  Now that makes for exciting driving when you don't know who thinks they have right of way.  Still, didn't see any crashes.

[vortoozo]

So people would have to be taught.

 

Ha! Teaching people to bring reusable bags to the store seems to be the world's most horrible punishment according to some posters. People don't like being taught.

[Rob Randall]

^Canadians are unusually compliant. Look how fast we gave up our one and two dollar bills and pennies when we were told. Good luck getting Americans to do that.

[mbjj]

Last time we rented a car in Germany it was one that automatically shuts off at traffic lights. It was great.

We love round-abouts..very practical.

I was driving in Cook St. village the other day and the car in front of me passed the car in front of it. We were still in the slow zone but he got fed up waiting. When we arrived at the Fairfield and Cook St. traffic light, we were next to him. That got him nowhere fast.

 

It was France where the car entering the round-about used to have the right-of-way. We experienced that many years ago, it was confusing.

Edited by mbjj, 11 July 2018 - 07:08 AM.

[DustMagnet]

Last time we rented a car in Germany it was one that automatically shuts off at traffic lights. It was great.

We love round-abouts..very practical.

I was driving in Cook St. village the other day and the car in front of me passed the car in front of it. We were still in the slow zone but he got fed up waiting. When we arrived at the Fairfield and Cook St. traffic light, we were next to him. That got him nowhere fast.

 

It was France where the car entering the round-about used to have the right-of-way. We experienced that many years ago, it was confusing.

 

The first car I drove with auto-stop freaked me out when the engine died at a stoplight - even though I knew it was so equipped!

The impatient driver that you met at the light still got there first, so they "won".  That driving is seen as a competition is highly problematic.  Maybe that's just an inevitability of human nature.  One more way that self-driving cars can* be superior to human drivers.

 

* future tense - I ask the reader to acknowledge both the current limitations and the inevitable progress that will be made

[Mike K.]

Auto-stop features prematurely wear out engine components and will necessitate added maintenance, so whether or not there is an actual savings to your pocket book is questionable considering the costs of parts and maintenance. I had that feature on a vehicle I was driving and nixed it immediately.

[lanforod]

Makes sense on electric though.

[Mike K.]

Aren’t electric motors already off when the vehicle isn’t moving? All the batteries are doing is pumping auxiliary juice like they do for ICE engines with the auto-stop thing.

[DustMagnet]

Auto-stop features prematurely wear out engine components and will necessitate added maintenance, so whether or not there is an actual savings to your pocket book is questionable considering the costs of parts and maintenance. I had that feature on a vehicle I was driving and nixed it immediately.

 

So no engineering was done to mitigate the additional stress?  Strange.  I guess it's electric motors for all.  You can supplement your batteries with a small generator if needed.

[Mike K.]

You're going from a starter being used 2-4x per day to 10-20x per day, and all the wear and tear that comes with the starting of an engine that many times. You're also putting more strain on the battery, the alternator, etc.

[DustMagnet]

You're going from a starter being used 2-4x per day to 10-20x per day, and all the wear and tear that comes with the starting of an engine that many times. You're also putting more strain on the battery, the alternator, etc.

If it was just a regular car and the driver was manually stopping and starting the engine at every traffic stop then the increased wear seems obvious.

 

But auto-start-stop engines aren't just regular engines that the ECC is stopping and starting - there are other engineering changes to the starter and the bearing surface materials for example.

 

Have they been in the market long enough to generate the long-term data?

[Mike K.]

Just watch this video. 

[Danma]

You're going from a starter being used 2-4x per day to 10-20x per day, and all the wear and tear that comes with the starting of an engine that many times. You're also putting more strain on the battery, the alternator, etc.

 

The solenoids are designed differently to support this functionality, and more robustly to accommodate the additional start/stop cycles...

[DustMagnet]

Just watch this video. 

That's was just more of the same.  Some guy assuming that stop/start engines in non-hybrid vehicles are no different that regular engines.  At one point he even begrudgingly admits that the components of stop/start cars might be engineered for the extended duty-cycle but then handwaves that away.

Here's another view that seems a bit more balanced: https://www.autocar....ur-car-s-engine

[Mike K.]

Oh I'm sure they are, but those fancy improvements will also wear out over time, and with fancy improvements come fancy repair costs. Talk to car guys who work on these things to get a sense of what's in your best interest: 3% less fuel use and significantly higher maintenance costs?

[Mike K.]

Here's another view that seems a bit more balanced: https://www.autocar....ur-car-s-engine

 

Yeah, I've seen that one. That article just says steps need to be taken to help prevent additional engine wear, and that new lubricants are under development.

 

I think you guys have kinda missed the point. The issue isn't the function, it's the cost savings to the consumer. But if those cost savings are negated by higher maintenance costs what's the benefit? There isn't one except for the manufacturer that now double-ends his profit margin with a fee for the feature and a higher fee to fix it.

[Rob Randall]

I read somewhere long ago that 30 seconds is the point at which you should shut off your engine when idling if gas savings are your goal.

[DustMagnet]

I thought the original point was about emissions, not fuel usage per se.

 

This micro-study suggests that 10 seconds is the cut-off for lower fuel usage and lower emissions: https://www.afdc.ene..._is_greener.pdf