Jump to content

      














Photo

Casino proposal for Victoria's core


  • Please log in to reply
622 replies to this topic

#481 PraiseKek

PraiseKek
  • Validating
  • 415 posts

Posted 05 July 2018 - 04:52 PM

Even with pot legalization the whole medicinal charade is very much continuing. Hopefully soon that will go away.
  • sdwright.vic likes this

#482 tjv

tjv
  • Member
  • 2,403 posts

Posted 05 July 2018 - 05:51 PM

The laws in B.C. don't permit revenue sharing with the native groups, thus there's no real incentive for First Nations to partner up with the B.C. Gov't just for wages ... while the B.C. Gov't takes all the profits.

That doesn't make any sense since reserves are governed by the federal Indian Act, they don't have to listen to anything the Province says.  For example natives don't pay PST, you can't file provincial builders liens on anything on reserves, etc.  The reason is because those are provincial laws

 

Yeah, I’m pretty sure Chances Cowichan is on native land.

yes it is



#483 Cassidy

Cassidy
  • Banned
  • 2,501 posts
  • LocationVictoria

Posted 05 July 2018 - 07:55 PM

That doesn't make any sense since reserves are governed by the federal Indian Act, they don't have to listen to anything the Province says.  For example natives don't pay PST, you can't file provincial builders liens on anything on reserves, etc.  The reason is because those are provincial laws

 

yes it is

 

Regardless of where it occurs, casino gambling is ultimately a Provincial matter, and Provincial laws apply in every square inch of the Province.

As per your query in your post ... B.C. would have dozens of First Nations owned casinos ... and we've only got one, because all casinos have to be approved by the Province, regardless of where they're located ... and the Province always takes its cut of the profit.

 

There are quite a few First Nations casinos in other Provinces, those Provinces that have more open gambling legislation, and those Provinces that were willing to break out First Nations as a unique case.

 

In short, gambling is pretty much illegal in Canada as per Federal legislation ... however Federal legislation also permits the individual Provinces to allow gambling as per whatever Provincial legislation they pass. 

 

As the links I provided note, B.C. treats First Nations wanting to open a casino exactly like they would treat you if you approached the government asking to open a casino. There's no "special treatment" or "special legislation" for First Nations when it comes to gambling (yet).

 

Did you click on the links in my post? ... those two articles explain it pretty well.

 

Here's another one that makes clear why all First Nation reserves in B.C. have to abide by Provincial gambling legislation, pay Provincial gambling taxes, and otherwise abide by Provincial legislation.

https://uk.practical...omp=pluk&bhcp=1


Edited by Cassidy, 05 July 2018 - 07:57 PM.


#484 rambaldi

rambaldi
  • Member
  • 173 posts

Posted 05 July 2018 - 09:35 PM

he was concerned that a casino development might seem too much like a strip mall like the one in View Royal with parking in front.

 

 

Imagine a destination-resort casino at Rock Bay...

 

Hilton_01.png

 

that also just happens to include a new public swimming pool (Crystal Pool replacement), convention centre, theatre, and other mixed-use community amenities and housing.

 

 

BTW: That's Quebec's Casino Lac Leamy pictured above.


  • RFS likes this

#485 spanky123

spanky123
  • Member
  • 11,983 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 06:00 AM

I happen to agree with Jeremy on this one. I understand that the Mayor and supportive members of council see dollar signs to pay for more pet projects, but the reality is that to business and people living downtown I see no net benefit. Every dollar spent at the casino would just come out of the money that would have otherwise been spent at restaurants, bars, concerts and other entertainment events downtown. It is not like the average Joe is flush with cash looking for extra things to spend it on.

 

When was the last time, other than Vegas, that anyone went on vacation and sought out a local casino to spend their time and money? That is my rebuttal to those who claim that a downtown casino would generate millions in new tourism dollars.

 

I think that the Rock Bay site is interesting as I understand that the CRD is paying the FN owners $250K+ a year to lease the site and it is not being used. That may drive a bad decision. 



#486 sdwright.vic

sdwright.vic

    Burnside-Gorge

  • Member
  • 6,525 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 07:09 AM

^I go to the Casino all the time when on vacation, no matter where..

My "gambling" budget has nothing to do with my eating, drinking, entertainment or shopping budget. I am a average Joe... guess I just know how to stick to a budget?

So what if it doesn't bring in "millions", it would provide a different entertainment venue, that many downtown residents would enjoy.
  • Nparker likes this
Predictive text and a tiny keyboard are not my friends!

#487 Nparker

Nparker
  • Member
  • 24,807 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 07:25 AM

And if a privately operated casino doesn't attract enough business it will close, just like any retail store or restaurant. I say give it a shot and see if it works.

 

ps: I am not much of a gambler myself. The last time I was in Las Vegas, in a period of 5 days, I spent a grand total of $20 on the slot machines. 



#488 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 53,163 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 07:33 AM

Casinos help pay for a swath of social services in this province, so Victoria indirectly benefits considerably from their operations.

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#489 Cassidy

Cassidy
  • Banned
  • 2,501 posts
  • LocationVictoria

Posted 06 July 2018 - 08:00 AM

Although I'm in support of additional B.C. casinos generally, the reality is that B.C. currently does such a mediocre job of enforcement it raises the question as to whether the Province, RCMP, and local police forces can deal with anything more than we've currently got (considering they're not really doing a very good job of policing what we already have).

 

I seriously doubt we could expand casino gambling in B.C. within the legislative and policing abilities we currently have in place ... and I suspect the various enforcement bodies in B.C. currently realize this all too well.

 

In short, more (or bigger) casinos would first require a major investment and overhaul in the infrastructure needed to keep the casino gambling process above board ... what with the Premier announcing just yesterday that there could be a public inquiry in order to determine how much illegal money laundering, loansharking, etc is currently taking place in licensed B.C. casinos ... the indicators currently are that casino gambling in B.C. in 2018 isn't in all that good of shape.


Edited by Cassidy, 06 July 2018 - 08:01 AM.


#490 Hotel Mike

Hotel Mike

    Hotel Mike

  • Member
  • 1,857 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 08:06 AM

The pro-gambling industry always talks about the entertainment value of a casino. Sure, it's entertaining when it takes you a couple of hours to lose the hundred bucks or so you budgeted for gambling. You may leave the casino feeling that you got good entertainment value for your buck. But there is a group of people to whom gambling is more than entertainment. I have seen so many people sitting at slots machines, with an empty, forlorn look on their faces, pumping the machines full of money. They hate themselves for losing money they need for other things. They blame themselves for not having the discipline to say no. I would rather forego the "entertainment" in Victoria for the people who so desperately need to stay away from casinos.


  • rmpeers likes this
Don't be so sure.:cool:

#491 RFS

RFS
  • Member
  • 4,031 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 08:08 AM

The pro-gambling industry always talks about the entertainment value of a casino. Sure, it's entertaining when it takes you a couple of hours to lose the hundred bucks or so you budgeted for gambling. You may leave the casino feeling that you got good entertainment value for your buck. But there is a group of people to whom gambling is more than entertainment. I have seen so many people sitting at slots machines, with an empty, forlorn look on their faces, pumping the machines full of money. They hate themselves for losing money they need for other things. They blame themselves for not having the discipline to say no. I would rather forego the "entertainment" in Victoria for the people who so desperately need to stay away from casinos.

Ok, but supervised injection sites are A-OK?  Jeremy Loveday certainly thinks so



#492 Nparker

Nparker
  • Member
  • 24,807 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 08:15 AM

...But there is a group of people to whom gambling is more than entertainment. I have seen so many people sitting at slots machines, with an empty, forlorn look on their faces, pumping the machines full of money. They hate themselves for losing money they need for other things. They blame themselves for not having the discipline to say no. I would rather forego the "entertainment" in Victoria for the people who so desperately need to stay away from casinos.

Would you apply the same standards to the sale of alcohol? 



#493 Cassidy

Cassidy
  • Banned
  • 2,501 posts
  • LocationVictoria

Posted 06 July 2018 - 08:17 AM

The world of casino gambling is ripe with tales of degenerate gamblers, but the reality of casino gambling is that other than a very small percentage of compulsive or otherwise degenerate gamblers, the vast majority of casino patrons visit for the social and entertainment value, and can afford to lose whatever amount of money they might happen to lose.

 

As well, just because casino gambling in general is a losing game for the patron ... doesn't mean that all patrons lose. Lots of folks go home happy, and with more money than they arrived with.

 

Those tales of degenerate gamblers certainly aren't "untrue", but they represent an incredibly tiny portion of the total number of casino visitors, so small as to be relatively unimportant in the broader discussion about casino gambling.

 

E.G. - The Las Vegas metropolitan area has around 1 million residents, and more casinos per square mile than anywhere else on earth ... yet the majority of the folks who live in Las Vegas simply lead normal lives. The ratio of degenerate gamblers in Las Vegas is no different than it is in any other city of a million inhabitants. There is no "massive" number of degenerate gamblers in Las Vegas.

 

In other words, access to casino gambling doesn't create more degenerate gamblers, especially with online gambling now so readily available, including those legal online gambling companies in B.C.


  • sdwright.vic likes this

#494 RFS

RFS
  • Member
  • 4,031 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 08:20 AM

^Agreed, I would say that any gambling addicts in the COV are probably already driving out to View Royal so an additional casino probably won't make a difference



#495 tjv

tjv
  • Member
  • 2,403 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 08:22 AM

Regardless of where it occurs, casino gambling is ultimately a Provincial matter, and Provincial laws apply in every square inch of the Province.

As per your query in your post ... B.C. would have dozens of First Nations owned casinos ... and we've only got one, because all casinos have to be approved by the Province, regardless of where they're located ... and the Province always takes its cut of the profit.

 

There are quite a few First Nations casinos in other Provinces, those Provinces that have more open gambling legislation, and those Provinces that were willing to break out First Nations as a unique case.

 

In short, gambling is pretty much illegal in Canada as per Federal legislation ... however Federal legislation also permits the individual Provinces to allow gambling as per whatever Provincial legislation they pass. 

 

As the links I provided note, B.C. treats First Nations wanting to open a casino exactly like they would treat you if you approached the government asking to open a casino. There's no "special treatment" or "special legislation" for First Nations when it comes to gambling (yet).

 

Did you click on the links in my post? ... those two articles explain it pretty well.

 

Here's another one that makes clear why all First Nation reserves in B.C. have to abide by Provincial gambling legislation, pay Provincial gambling taxes, and otherwise abide by Provincial legislation.

https://uk.practical...omp=pluk&bhcp=1

Ah ok, because gambling is illegal under the Criminal Code of Canada and is deferred to the provinces.  Its still interesting that is probably the only provincial law the natives to abide by



#496 Cassidy

Cassidy
  • Banned
  • 2,501 posts
  • LocationVictoria

Posted 06 July 2018 - 08:24 AM

I don't have the stats handy to share, but the massive lottery ticket enterprise in B.C. takes in far more money from degenerate gamblers than does the bricks and mortar casino industry in B.C.


  • jonny likes this

#497 tjv

tjv
  • Member
  • 2,403 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 08:25 AM

But there is a group of people to whom gambling is more than entertainment. I have seen so many people sitting at slots machines, with an empty, forlorn look on their faces, pumping the machines full of money. They hate themselves for losing money they need for other things. They blame themselves for not having the discipline to say no.

I have the same empty forum look on my face when I pay my property taxes, income taxes, etc.  I blame myself for not having the discipline to say no too


  • RFS, lanforod and Daveyboy like this

#498 RFS

RFS
  • Member
  • 4,031 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 08:26 AM

I have the same empty forum look on my face when I pay my property taxes, income taxes, etc.  I blame myself for not having the discipline to say no too

Time for another 1776



#499 Cassidy

Cassidy
  • Banned
  • 2,501 posts
  • LocationVictoria

Posted 06 July 2018 - 08:59 AM

Ah ok, because gambling is illegal under the Criminal Code of Canada and is deferred to the provinces.  Its still interesting that is probably the only provincial law the natives to abide by

Don't the RCMP patrol all First Nation lands (who don't have their own police force), and don't you get a traffic ticket for violating any Provincial traffic laws while transiting a reserve on a public road?



#500 Nparker

Nparker
  • Member
  • 24,807 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 09:00 AM

...access to casino gambling doesn't create more degenerate gamblers, especially with online gambling now so readily available...

If this weren't true, then allowing the explosion of pot shops in the CoV would have resulted in more people using cannabis.


  • Cassidy likes this

You're not quite at the end of this discussion topic!

Use the page links at the lower-left to go to the next page to read additional posts.
 



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users