2353 replies to this topic

[aastra]

Providing decent public pools is one of the top raisons d'etre of municipal governments as far as I'm concerned, only a bit further down the list from things like police and fire services, trash collection, water and sewage, etc. Any way you slice it the old pool will need to be replaced eventually. It's not as if you can stall forever.

 

That said, crikey: A) the price tag is nuts, and B) the RAP parking lot would be a much more logical site since it's literally right next door to the current location but it wouldn't involve ripping out existing playgrounds, ball courts, and trees.

[Ismo07]

RAP parking lot would be a much more logical site since it's literally right next door to the current location but it wouldn't involve ripping out existing playgrounds, ball courts, and trees.

 

Size is very tight...  I kind of like the east side of RAP itself...  

[Victoria Watcher]

At just $1.5M, McKinnon pool is a bargain

 

Closing the McKinnon pool at the University of Victoria because it needs $1.5 million for repairs seems to defy common sense.

 

The City of Victoria is talking about spending more than 100 times this amount to replace the Crystal Pool. To retain the McKinnon pool for just $1.5 million seems to be an incredible bargain.

 

And not that UVic is short of infrastructure funds. It has just spent at least $1.5 million to pave and separate the bicycle access to the campus from Dawnview Road, and is spending multi-millions to provide a separated bike lane on McGill Road.

 

Mike Day

Victoria

 

 

https://www.timescol...s-sense-9185164

[aastra]

 

Closing the McKinnon pool at the University of Victoria because it needs $1.5 million for repairs seems to defy common sense.

 

It's politics. It's the definition of defying common sense. Pool-related politics in particular has gone off the deep end* just about everywhere.

*play on words

[Nparker]

Politics: it's always sink or swim.

[spanky123]

It's politics. It's the definition of defying common sense. Pool-related politics in particular has gone off the deep end* just about everywhere.

*play on words

 

And if UVIC is saying the repair costs are $1.5M they are really about $500K.

[Victoria Watcher]

I believe that the taxpayers of Victoria could end up being on the hook for more than half a billion dollars when all is said and done

 

 

 

Several million dollars have already been spent on project planning, feasibility studies, reports and consulting fees for the new Crystal Pool under the watch of the former Victoria Mayor Lisa Helps and council.

 

Now the current mayor and council wants us to believe that a new Crystal Pool can be built for $209.2 million or more, depending on which site the pool is built on.

If you have been paying close attention to large building projects throughout the Lower Mainland and on Vancouver Island, you will find that many of these projects ended up being double or triple the cost that was originally quoted.

 

Although there has been no mention by the mayor about skyrocketing construction prices, I believe that the taxpayers of Victoria could end up being on the hook for more than half a billion dollars when all is said and done, given the number of years before the pool is completed which is potentially as far forward as 2031 or 2032.

 

So, what can be done to lower the cost of building the new pool?

 

We do not need a dynamic, lavish, exciting, one of a kind or state-of-the-art facility. It is this type of extravagant thinking that is crippling the taxpayers’ ability to pay.

 

Although it would be nice to have, we don’t need a movable bulkhead, a lazy river, a half size gymnasium, multi-purpose rooms for dance, wellness and art activities, a seniors’ room or a community gathering place.

 

 

 

https://www.timescol...refully-9185162

[Mike K.]

Why not duplicate Oak Bay Rec, or the Esquimalt Rec building? Simple and functional.

[aastra]

 

Although it would be nice to have, we don’t need a movable bulkhead, a lazy river, a half size gymnasium, multi-purpose rooms for dance, wellness and art activities, a seniors’ room or a community gathering place.

 

Grumpy taxpayer types don't understand how they're being played. If you demand less than they'll give you less, but there won't be any savings.

[aastra]

 

Why not duplicate Oak Bay Rec, or the Esquimalt Rec building? Simple and functional.

 

That takes us all the way back around to the fundamental questions, such as: why does the city of Victoria require a competition-level 50m facility if Oak Bay, Esquimalt, and Colwood/Langford do not?

Do serious swimmers from Oak Bay, Esquimalt, and Colwood/Langford depend on the 50m facilities in the CoV and Saanich? If so, why do taxpayers in the CoV and Saanich get left holding the bag?

 

What happens when Commonwealth Place gets overdue for a serious refurb or outright replacement? Could we end up lacking a 50m facility anywhere in Greater Victoria for some as-yet-to-be-determined interval?

 

What about UVic's future plans?

 

How many 50m facilities does Greater Victoria really need?

How much revenue do 50m facilities generate and how long does it take for them to start turning a profit?

How expensive can a proposed facility get before it becomes unjustifiably expensive?

 

Is there planning and/or coordination happening behind the scenes between the various players even though they don't let on publicly about it?

Etc.

[aastra]

Also, why couldn't the CoV do a basic refurb on the Crystal and maintain it (as inexpensively as possible) as the city's 50m centre while also building a new & modern family facility in another location?

[aastra]

^If you can guarantee another 20-25 years out of the Crystal for not too high a price tag while also building a new family facility on another site then wouldn't that be a workable compromise? The folks who like to stall and/or do nothing for years would be satisfied, the folks who like brouhahas would be satisfied (since the Crystal replacement debate will inevitably raise its ugly head again), and the folks who like new family pools with modern amenities would also be satisfied.

[aastra]

 

Is there planning and/or coordination happening behind the scenes between the various players even though they don't let on publicly about it?

 

Let's just say it's interesting that Saanich built Commonwealth Place about ~20 years after the CoV built the Quadra St. Crystal Pool, and then the CoV started getting serious about replacing the Quadra St. Crystal Pool about ~20 years after Saanich built Commonwealth Place.

[Victoria Watcher]

Victoria council unanimously approved the referendum on borrowing $169 million to replace Crystal Pool, and it is now off to the B.C. government for approval before the referendum can take place.

 

In B.C., in order to conduct a referendum for long-term borrowing, a municipality must obtain consent from the Ministry of Municipal Affairs.

 

A guide by the ministry says provincial approval can take four to six weeks, but more complicated reviews can take eight weeks or longer.

 

If approved, it will come back to Victoria council for final approval, at which point a referendum date would be set.

 

Staff have previously said the goal is to hold the referendum in early 2025.

 

Voters would be asked whether or not council has approval to borrow up to $169 million to replace Crystal Pool, as well as choose between two locations.

 

If voters say no to borrowing the money, the city would be unable to proceed with the project. However, neither question is a binding question. So if voters say yes to borrowing the money, council can still choose to not proceed.

 

Council could also decide to go with the location not chosen by the voters.

 

 

https://www.cheknews...proval-1213721/

[Nparker]

I am ashamed at the 3 non-criminal members of council who supported proceeding with this outrageous expense. 

[Victoria Watcher]

Now that Kelowna residents have refused to reject a $241.3 million borrowing plan for a new Parkinson Recreation Centre, it’s left to the professionals to decide what it will look like.

 

“This project has been in the works through the planning stages for over 10 years,” Derek Edstrom, the city’s director of community planning and strategic infrastructure, told iNFOnews.ca.

 

“During that time, we’ve gone through different versions of public engagement a well as having professionals who, nationwide, advise on the type of recreation amenities that a community needs as well as what the trends are.”

 

But that's the end of general public input on the city's single most expensive project ever, although stakeholders and user groups will be consulted.

 

 

https://infotel.ca/n...elowna/it101272

[LJ]

If voters say no to borrowing the money, the city would be unable to proceed with the project. However, neither question is a binding question. So if voters say yes to borrowing the money, council can still choose to not proceed.

 

If the questions are non-binding couldn't the city just go ahead with the project anyway? If the voters say yes, council can say no, if the voters say no, couldn't council say yes?

[Nparker]

Today's unanimous decision by council to proceed with the referendum might be tantamount to giving the go ahead for construction. I am curious to see if the "non-binding question" also gives precise details of how much the cost per household building the pool will be. If renters feel they are immune from an increased property tax burden they are more likely to support the endeavour.

[Mike K.]

Now that Kelowna residents have refused to reject a $241.3 million borrowing plan for a new Parkinson Recreation Centre, it’s left to the professionals to decide what it will look like.

Refused to reject? That’s an odd way of saying it.

[lanforod]

That’s what I thought. I guess that’s how the question was worded.