70 replies to this topic

[amor de cosmos]

about the galloping goose
 

8.3.1 Work with the Capital Regional District to enhance the Galloping Goose and Lochside Regional Trails by expanding the width of the trail and creating separate areas for pedestrians and cyclists to improve safety and enhance the experience for all users.
 
8.3.2 Work with the CRD to explore opportunities to improve the safety and visibility of access points and crossing locations along the Galloping Goose and Lochside Regional Trails, through:

• Focusing on high use/high conflict areas;
• Addressing sightlines and signage needs; and•Improving road-trail crossings, including through marking and lighting.

8.3.3 Pursue the development of pocket parks or plazas along the Galloping Goose Regional Trail (see Policy 5.8.6).
 
8.3.4 Work with the Capital Regional District to enhance wayfinding to better link regional trails with key destinations and active transportation routes.
 
8.3.5 Work with Capital Regional District and adjacent property owners to enhance public amenities along the Galloping Goose and Lochside Regional Trails, including through the provision of shelters, water fountains, benches, washrooms and bike kitchens.
 
8.3.6 Support public art installations on private property along the Galloping Goose and Lochside Regional Trails, to celebrate and animate the area.
 
8.3.7 Enhance connectivity to the Lochside Regional Trail and support the creation of a public/ open space at the Municipal Campus site that complements the Nigel Valley Plaza as part of upgrades or redevelopment (see Policies 8.2.6 and 5.12.11).
 
8.3.8 Work with the Capital Regional District and MOTI to enhance the integration of the Galloping Goose and Lochside Regional Trails with adjacent land uses, including exploring additional non-motorized access points to uses fronting on to the Trail.
 
8.3.9 Ensure redevelopment proposals adjacent to the Galloping Goose and Lochside Regional Trails are designed to:

• Improve passive visual surveillance while maintaining the greenway character of the Trail;
• Add to interest and enhance the recreational experience of the trail;
• Address potential conflicts created by access points; and
• Include landscaped areas adjacent to the Trail with a balanced focus on native and drought tolerant plants to enhance the greenway character of the trail corridor.

 
& more details about that mid-block alley
 

7.9.1 Create a new laneway, Audley Crossing, through the development process, generally based on the conceptual alignment identified on Figure 7.11.
 
7.9.2 Implement the conceptual design for Audley Crossing identified in Figure 7.10.
 
7.9.3 Design Audley Crossing as a shared lane with pedestrian priority, including features such as planters and living walls, street furniture and pedestrian lighting, on the buildings.
 
7.9.4 Define a two-storey street wall along Audley Crossing to frame the lane and reflect its pedestrian-scale character (See Figure 7.10).
 
7.9.5 Through the redevelopment process, work with developers to ensure optimal outcomes for Audley Crossing, including through easements, adjustments to the alignment and consideration of community contributions.
 
7.9.6 Encourage opportunities for integrating Audley Crossing as part of large redevelopment projects on Douglas Street and Oak Street, and support residential and commercial mixed-use developments (up to 3 storeys, stepped back at 2 storeys) that front onto the lane and serve to enhance its role, function and appearance as a shared thoroughfare.
 
7.9.7 Strongly encourage active commercial developments along Audley Crossing that frame the lane, provide commercial activity and pedestrian orientation and offer a spilling-out of uses into the space (e.g. cafes, patio seating).
 
7.9.8 Provide pedestrian, bicycle, local vehicle and loading/delivery access while creating an exceptional pedestrian-oriented lane that accommodates recreational and social activities.
 
7.9.9 Expect all loading access and bays to be on-site and integrated into building design (see guidelines 9.2.5 ii).
 
7.9.10 Consider public open space linkages (i.e. new park acquisition) and other improvements that create unique areas along Audley Crossing including pocket parks, enhanced seating areas and public art.

edit: re: 8.8.3/5.8.6 here's the agora of athens at its peak with the panathenaic way going through the middle

https://medium.com/@...ra-fa984ceb017c

Edited by amor de cosmos, 10 August 2020 - 09:00 AM.

[Spy Black]

Currently, the Goose is a prime place to get stabbed or assaulted while trying to make your way through 30 or so tents and assorted chop-shops.

The Goose has also turned into the prime avenue of ingress and egress from downtown for criminals and drug addicts, many of whom ride stolen bicycles (as a drivers license and car ownership elude them).

Which is why these plans, concepts, chrarettes, and pen and ink drawings are all complete and utter B.S., designed only to distract those foolish enough to let it distract them.

 

Audley Crossing will simply never happen, and is a complete waste of time to even dwell on (and yet I comment on it ... oh well).

 

I know it's Saanich, but the entire thought process which requires of private business and private citizens to invest millions of dollars in some municipal egghead's master plan ... while allowing tent cities, open drug dealing, and unrestrained crime to flourish is disingenuous at the least, and a self-written comedy routine at best.

[Victoria Watcher]

I agree black.

[amor de cosmos]

you guys have no vision. if you knew what the world would look like in 30 years you'd be richer than jeff bezos. from what i got out of that document, the general idea is to make the galloping goose less like a converted rail right-of-way (not an inviting place) & more of a proper bike/pedestrian road transportation route with street fronts, landscaping etc

[Mike K.]

Being a dreamer is easy. The hard part is convincing dozens of land owners to buy into that dream, expend their own capital to pursue it, while hoping everyone else does the same thing, too, and within a reasonable timeline.

 

Do you know what the 2020 vision for Rock Bay was 20-years-ago?

[amor de cosmos]

i would say it's easier still to be negative & always criticise & say something can't/won't be done, because you don't have to put yourself out there & can never be wrong that way. that's why people say "dare to dream" & not "dare to be a grouch who always finds something not to like". no i don't know off the top of my head what the plan for rock bay was 20 years ago, and I don't really care that much. things come up during any big project, like once they start digging they might find there's more to clean up that they thought, or there's a global pandemic, etc.

Edited by amor de cosmos, 11 August 2020 - 09:03 AM.

[aastra]

 

no i don't know off the top of my head what the plan for rock bay was 20 years ago, and I don't really care that much.

 

Dare to dream one day and then toss the dreams into the garbage the next day? Because who really cares when you get right down to it?

 

Why do the most celebrated visions always have to be flaky and logistically problematic? Many people on this board have been promoting a very straightforward vision for more residential development in downtown proper and the greater downtown area. And yet here we are ~15 years later and it's STILL an uphill slog, politically controversial, with no real buy-in from the authorities or even from neighbourhood groups.

 

It's especially frustrating because the people are the first ingredient and the main ingredient. All of the other bright ideas must be laid upon that foundation. But in Victoria politics the cart is always put before the horse. People-stuff is great, but the people themselves are not. Ordinary people are the menace and the enemy.

 

It makes no sense to dream about the trappings and amenities of a denser & richer urban environment while also resisting the development of a denser & richer urban environment.

[aastra]

I'm a big fan of musing about possibilities, don't get me wrong. But methinks the addressing of fundamentals should always be at the top of the priority list, and it would seem to be especially relevant right about now.

[Mike K.]

i would say it's easier still to be negative & always criticise & say something can't/won't be done, because you don't have to put yourself out there & can never be wrong that way. that's why people say "dare to dream" & not "dare to be a grouch who always finds something not to like". no i don't know off the top of my head what the plan for rock bay was 20 years ago, and I don't really care that much. things come up during any big project, like once they start digging they might find there's more to clean up that they thought, or there's a global pandemic, etc.

I’m not talking about one site, I’m talking about the entire neighbourbood from Chatham to Bay and east to Blanshard.

Rock Bay was supposed to be a thriving, bustling hub of industry by 2020, with commercial spaces and Granville Island-like pockets of public spaces and residences strewn about. That was the vision 20-years ago and to this day the area remains bleak because what the City wants for that area doesn’t jive with what developers are willing to build and the market ultimately desires.

Actually, speaking of Rock Bay, Victoria is killing proposals that don’t have the right mix of industrial and commercial usage they want to see there, while Saanich wants to do away with its mix of industrial and commercial usage in favour of residential.

Can we not just have Rock Bay turn into the residential node the market wants it to be, and infuse the upper Douglas area with more industrial and commercial spaces with residential less dominant (ie to avoid noise issues, etc).

The switcheroo the two municipalities are contemplating is rather funny.

[On the Level]

Do we know if there was consultation and input on Audley Lane from the businesses that are getting sliced in half?  If not, I wonder how all of those that work in that area feel.  I would imagine that they would view Fred Haynes and co. as a group out to threaten their families ability to have a livelihood.

[Victoria Watcher]

saanich will probably say it's an "aspirational" plan and of course subject to changes and revisions along the way.

 

but it that case it's just a stupid - and likely expensive - visioning project that's not worth much to saanich taxpayers.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 11 August 2020 - 11:46 AM.

[Brantastic]

I like the concept of Audley Crossing and the pedestrian high street on Oak but I can't see it really working unless absolutely every property was redeveloped all at once. I can't imagine a few coffee shops, restaurants, clothing stores, etc. wanting to open up along Oak Street without an established presence of similar retail units along the street, and when there's many vacancies to fill at Uptown and Mayfair. I assume Audley Crossing would be developed through a piecemeal approach where small chunks are built at a time through redevelopment, but it doesn't really make sense as a shopping destination until all of it is constructed. 

I'm also a bit confused by the "landmark transit hub" building. I like the concept of this location playing a greater role as a regional transit exchange, but what is the building for? Is it bike parking? Images show a grand modern building, but unless we're building subways or skytrains, I can't imagine what the purpose of such a large building would be if our transit system is just busses. Some images show a tram along Douglas Street, but even then, it would be accessed from outside. 

Otherwise I really do like a lot of the ideas proposed for the area and think it takes the area in the right direction.

[amor de cosmos]

more about the reasoning for creating audley crossing
 

In a different sense, the future design of Oak Street will also have a significant impact on the character of the area. The future vision of the area as a medium density residential high street without a major role in carrying high traffic volumes provides a unique opportunity to create an innovative design with a special character. The addition of Audley Crossing between Douglas Street and Oak Street will enable many access and loading functions to be removed from Oak Street, provide additional space for commercial activity and introduce a finer grained pedestrian network.

they also want to put a park connecting audley & oak st

[Spy Black]

No point in worrying about it now ... we'll all be long dead by the time the first inkling of this plan even has the potential to materialize!

 

BTW, that "materialization" will be upon us when Suburban Motors, Campus Nissan, Campus Acura, Campus Infiniti, Victoria Mitsubishi, Land Rover Victoria, Porsche Centre Victoria, Willie Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep-Ram and Volkswagen Victoria are all torn down and gone.

 

All because some anonymous municipal planner has a computer and a plotter on his desk that he can make nice maps on?

[Victoria Watcher]

tile and carpet industries?

 

https://www.vicnews....n-douglas-plan/

 

what a joke.

 

 

 

 

 

“We need information around preserving current industrial uses like car dealerships, tile, carpet industries … We want to bring housing, green space, improve tree coverage from six to 20 per cent, but it also hinges on maintaining the employment base,” Haynes said, adding the proposal has been in the works for five years.

 

Haynes expects updates from staff near the end of September, but the report is only one piece of the puzzle. Staff have also been asked to prepare amendments to the Official Community Plan – including changes to permit building heights up to 24 storeys and undertake a pilot pre-zoning project. Council will refer the development of the off-street parking standards in the area for a strategic planning session.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 11 August 2020 - 05:23 PM.

[rjag]

And the unintended consequence of this is when they rezone the land the values will skyrocket and increase the property taxes required from these small businesses which wont survive in those locations thereafter.

 

They need to grandfather property values/taxes based on current use not future use 

[aastra]

 

Staff have also been asked to prepare amendments to the Official Community Plan – including changes to permit building heights up to 24 storeys

 

Meanwhile, the residential plot at Uptown is still empty and a shoebox is planned for the corner property.

[Mike K.]

Don’t forget about the SuperStore lot. Or the 15-storey Budget lot proposal. Or the transit exchange.

Meanwhile the Carson Group wants to build a parkade along Audley for its vehicles.

[amor de cosmos]

When I think of everything else that has happened in the area in the last <10 years, what they want to do in that area makes a lot more sense now that it has sunk in a bit more. i don't mean that it's no big deal, but not nearly the major change that it might have seemed at first. it's really just a continuation of the process that has already been unfolding and looking at what else they can fix in the area. there has been
- redevelopment of town & country / uptown
- redevelopment of mayfair

- redevelopment of the nigel valley
- douglas st bus lanes & other stuff farther south
- building up the glasgow st neighbourhood

so if there are the two malls at either end of oak st, why not make oak st itself an extension of the malls also? & if they want to do that, wouldn't it be better to have a service lane in the back rather than to have the oak st frontage interrupted by loading bays & whatnot, so that's one of the functions of audley crossing. & while they're at it, why not consider other things near there, like the galloping goose, the municipal hall area...?

[On the Level]

And the unintended consequence of this is when they rezone the land the values will skyrocket and increase the property taxes required from these small businesses which wont survive in those locations thereafter.

 

They need to grandfather property values/taxes based on current use not future use 

 

They can relocate to Langford or Colwood......just like the bowling alley did.  Victoria/Saanich needs more destitute abandoned concrete sites that the homeless won't even camp on. 

 

Victoria 3.0 = Detroit