143 replies to this topic

[nagel]

As I have said, we need to brace ourselves for perpetual construction on the TCH.

to clarify, I was referring to travel within the westshore.  If anything the TCH is actually more of a barrier than an asset when travelling within the westshore.

[dasmo]

to clarify, I was referring to travel within the westshore. If anything the TCH is actually more of a barrier than an asset when travelling within the westshore.

Exactly. The Mackenzie overpass will do a lot because it will relieve Mackenzie. This helps Sannich the most, not Langford. Feeding onto the TCH from deep within the WestShore will still be brutal and will get worse... Mill bay will probably be a similar time at rush hour.

[jonny]

to clarify, I was referring to travel within the westshore.  If anything the TCH is actually more of a barrier than an asset when travelling within the westshore.

 

Yup, there are going to be many roadway improvements within the Western Communities, for sure. See the Westshore Parkway project, Bear Mountain Parkway, etc.

 

The McKenzie interchange will benefit commuters from Langford and elsewhere because they won't have to crawl through that intersection through multiple cycles. The challenge, I think, is with so much of our growth being in the Westcoms, at what point is the existing highway too small? I bet within 10 years we'll be talking about expanding the TCH to add two more lanes from Leigh Road in. 

[nagel]

Yup, there are going to be many roadway improvements within the Western Communities, for sure. See the Westshore Parkway project, Bear Mountain Parkway, etc.

 

The McKenzie interchange will benefit commuters from Langford and elsewhere because they won't have to crawl through that intersection through multiple cycles. The challenge, I think, is with so much of our growth being in the Westcoms, at what point is the existing highway too small? I bet within 10 years we'll be talking about expanding the TCH to add two more lanes from Leigh Road in. 

If they were on shoulder bus only lanes I would be ok with the expansion but more GP lanes will just get stuck at Tillicum.

 

I agree McKenzie will be freed up for traffic trying to get to the TCH but for those coming off the parclo to go "up" McKenzie it will be disappointing because the myriad of lights we have now (Burnside, Carey, Glanford, Saanich, Quadra etc) will still be there and will continue to cause havoc and will probably we will be worse off as people race to these lights through the parclo whereas now they are phased in by the 5 minute cycle at McKenzie.  So the interchange is just relocating the issue for those 1/3 of inbound vehicles which currently turn left.

[On the Level]

Should be interesting to see highway traffic pattern changes once the Westshore Connector opens this summer. Those going southbound heading Sooke way won't need to come into Langford. I believe it goes Northeast as a new highway connecting Bear Mountain.

[Mike K.]

The Westshore Parkway will alleviate congestion from Sooke and Metchosin-bound vehicles. That'll make a big difference for Colwood and Landford. We currently have a secondary crawl known as the Sooke Crawl due to the volume of vehicles heading out that way.

[nagel]

The Westshore Parkway will alleviate congestion from Sooke and Metchosin-bound vehicles. That'll make a big difference for Colwood and Landford. We currently have a secondary crawl known as the Sooke Crawl due to the volume of vehicles heading out that way.

It's going to dump more congestion at the top of the TCH, making the TCH mess even worse for years to come.  That will get worse as housing projects pop up all along the new parkway.

[Mike K.]

Sure, that's where they'll eventually trickle out in the AM, but in the PM it will remove a lot of traffic from Veterans and Old Island.

The Westshore desperately needs an alternate route from the core, something like a beefed up Helmcken/Wilkinson.

[nagel]

Make Wilkinson Great Again.

[Mike K.]

You know, it must be incredibly difficult to be a transportation and urban planner in the CRD. Whatever you're tasked with doing, you need either a) cooperation from neighbouring municipalities and/or b) higher level of government intervention.

 

Can you imagine if bike lanes in the City of Victoria were contingent on Oak Bay, Esquimalt and Saanich giving the yay or neigh? That's what it must feel like for the Westshore, which is the breadbasket of housing for our region but which is seen as an enemy that must be curtailed by every other muni. Saanich isn't coy about it's desire to stifle traffic to/from the Westshore, neither are Esquimalt and Victoria (Craigflower Road being a prime example of the 'make it hard for them to travel to and fro' attitude).

[nagel]

I think you're describing a regional transportation service which ironically the westshore was against.  So their residents will continue to travel through fiefdoms whose goals are completely contrary to their own.

[nagel]

Besides taking your bait all 4 of those muni's are very pro bike, except Esq and OB have no money to shell out on infrastructure projects.

 

The CoV and Saanich did work together last year on bike lanes on Lansdowne, and they have in the past on Cook as well.  I wouldn't be surprised if eventually they work together on Tolmie to give the North Quadra area a safe route to the Goose.

[Mike K.]

The Westshore was against an authority dictating what they could and couldn't do within their borders, which isn't a surprise considering the rest of the region appears hellbent on stifling the flow of traffic while the Westshore is scrambling to ensure traffic flows as quickly and smoothly as possible.

 

What we need is a regional transportation authority free entirely from the political winds at our 13 city halls. That's going to be next to impossible to implement and manage effectively.

[nagel]

The Westshore was against an authority dictating what they could and couldn't do within their borders, which isn't a surprise considering the rest of the region appears hellbent on stifling the flow of traffic while the Westshore is scrambling to ensure traffic flows as quickly and smoothly as possible.

 

What we need is a regional transportation authority free entirely from the political winds at our 13 city halls. That's going to be next to impossible to implement and manage effectively.

That type of setup is illogical.  It should be accountable to the public, if not only indirectly.

 

The Westshore had the most to gain from the service, and without such an authority they're going to continue to have problems getting their people to and from the core.

[On the Level]

That type of setup is illogical. It should be accountable to the public, if not only indirectly.

The Westshore had the most to gain from the service, and without such an authority they're going to continue to have problems getting their people to and from the core.

Eventually reality has the nasty habit of upsetting ideological driven goals. The number of residents in the Westshore will continue to increase partly because the other municipalities are trying to stop growth all while trying to reclaim roadways as quiet neighborhood lanes.

Of course the indirect result of this is that people will still try to get home after work, spill onto the smaller routes and plug them. Good luck for anyone living along those routes getting home. Who is being punished now?

A good example of engineered dysfunction is the new choke point on Helmekin. Another is converting the old island hwy into a beautiful lane complete with ababbling brook and art.

[nagel]

I think we're all being punished by a lack of support for real solutions, primarily considerable transit improvements to and from the Westshore.  Apparently in 2008 Gordon Campbell promised BRT lanes out to the westshore "soon" but these are just now being seriously considered, and only for small portions of the total route.  So medium term we will see hardly any alternatives provided.

[Mike K.]

Political accountability would stifle such an authority. It needs to have a mandate and a goal, and defined metrics as agreed upon by traffic and transportation planners who will have developed a deep understanding of the region's actual transportation demands (not dreams and aspirations according to politicians du jour) and the authority to act as it deems fit, keeping in mind that the ultimate, most important goal is an adequate movement of people and goods throughout the region.

Transportation planners actually think very lowly of our situation. They view the CRD is woefully under developed in terms of infrastructure and as a result, extremely inefficient.

I think we're too far gone and have become far too politicized to ever satisfactorily deal with our transportation bottlenecks. We can't even agree on how to build a sewage treatment plant for half of our population and we think we can have a transportation authority solve the traffic mess? Not a chance. There are simply too many egotistical cooks in the kitchen, all with their own ideas of grandeur and four year timelines to achieve them. Langford et al are well aware of this, and they want as little meddling from the east-side eight as possible.

[RFS]

it would be a great idea if the westshore was dealing with sane people with reasonable transportation goals in the other munis. That isn't the case. Westshore is in the business of moving folks from point A to point B. much of the core is interested in scoring ideological points and being considered "cool" and "with it". I can't imagine what young and helps talk about when they brush shoulders. perhaps helps regales him with her latest climate change conference and the grandstanding antics she has been getting up to while young talks about roads and taxes

[jonny]

^^ Exactly, my earlier point OTL. Saanich is not keen on growing. Langford is. That shifts the housing demand to Langford. The overall demand hasn’t changed, but consumers will shift to the path of least resistance, which is in the Westshore.  

 

Aside from Sooke, Langford and Colwood, in a lot of respects we seem to be ignorant and actively resistant to the reality that we are a growing metropolitan area. The key here being that while the population of Saanich may not be exploding, the interconnectedness of the metro area means substantial growth in Langford and Colwood means further expansion of transportation corridors in Saanich, Victoria, Central Saanich, Sidney, Malahat, etc.  

[tedward]

The Westshore desperately needs an alternate route from the core, something like a beefed up Helmcken/Wilkinson.

 

There is a great alternate route(s): build rail all the way out to Sooke as part of the Galloping Goose and from Westshore to downtown on the E&N line. More people, could be moved more efficiently along these corridors which would then also become focal points for residential developments along the route increasing density in a manageable fashion.