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Victoria City Hall's statue of Sir John A. MacDonald could be on the move


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#61 jonny

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:34 AM

My $0.02, for what it's worth: Removing our one and only statue of our first Prime Minister and primary founder of our beloved country amounts to basically giving the middle finger to Canada, a place I love. Not a fan. 

 

If it weren't for all the "old white men" in our history, there wouldn't be a Victoria for Lisa Helps to destroy. 


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#62 Nparker

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:35 AM

I agree with Mike. Lisa Helps is a clever person. That doesn't make her tactics any less despicable.



#63 lanforod

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:37 AM

Once again the mayor has succeeded in securing millions of dollars in free marketing and publicity for her brand and her campaign.

It’s a genius strategy. Negative press is free press and today the whole country is talking about her. Nothing is done without an end goal planned well ahead.

 

This has been a contentious issue in the country for a while: https://www.huffingt...-c_a_23498763/ 



#64 rmpeers

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:29 AM

I agree with Mike. Lisa Helps is a clever person. That doesn't make her tactics any less despicable.


Agreed. Also, when we vote in October, are we voting for Mayor and council or for The Family? What consitutes our local government these days?
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#65 LeoVictoria

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:35 AM

How is it democracy to be stating that you are dismantling the statue on a specific date even before council has voted on the matter? Other than Geoff Young, no other member of council seems to be showing any concern over the approach. With two months until the election and a referendum question already being asked, why not just vote to add a question on whether to remove the statue and let the public decide. Certainly the costs to do that would be negligible.


Sure, let’s add every single action that local government may take to the ballot no matter how trivial and insignificant.
Change municipal tax rates? Ballot.
Hire more police? Ballot
Widen a road? Ballot

All those things are much more impactful on the city than the location of a statue so surely the population deserves to vote.

In fact why do we even need local government if they don’t make decisions? Just replace them with a CHEK news poll.

#66 LeoVictoria

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:36 AM

Seems like if the statue moved to the Empress everyone would be happy no? Any concerns there?
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#67 Nparker

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:43 AM

Seems like if the statue moved to the Empress everyone would be happy no?...

This issue is about more than the placement of a statue. It's just as much about the overreach of the mayor, her lack of consultation/transparency and her disdain for the majority of her electorate as anything to do with the statue or what it represents.


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#68 rmpeers

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:47 AM

M
Sure, let’s add every single action that local government may take to the ballot no matter how trivial and insignificant.
Change municipal tax rates? Ballot.
Hire more police? Ballot
Widen a road? Ballot

All those things are much more impactful on the city than the location of a statue so surely the population deserves to vote.

In fact why do we even need local government if they don’t make decisions? Just replace them with a CHEK news poll.


I'd settle for a mayor that showed even an occasional, casual interest in listening to viewpoints other than her own. And I'm not talking about the statue; I mean about everything. The Trump-esque approach may work for her, but she might get more support by occasionally conceding that there are valid viewpoints other than her own.
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#69 Jason-L

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:11 AM

My $0.02, for what it's worth: Removing our one and only statue of our first Prime Minister and primary founder of our beloved country amounts to basically giving the middle finger to Canada, a place I love. Not a fan. 

 

If it weren't for all the "old white men" in our history, there wouldn't be a Victoria for Lisa Helps to destroy. 

On the other hand, there might be a thriving indigenous peoples culture and society instead.



#70 jonny

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:43 AM

Seems like if the statue moved to the Empress everyone would be happy no? Any concerns there?

 

I would not be upset if they were moving the statue to another public location. If they said we're moving it to Bastion Square or the Empress, I'd be cool with that. Thing is, it's being removed. 



#71 Mike K.

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:47 AM

Removed and stashed away. Helps maintains that its fate rests with “the family” and they’ll decide where it goes. When pressed about the likelihood that it will remain stashed away for, well forever, she had no real response.

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#72 jonny

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:50 AM

On the other hand, there might be a thriving indigenous peoples culture and society instead.

 

Maybe, but probably not. There were many other global powers with expansionist ambitions and much more powerful militaries than the indigenous people and somebody else would have "conquered" them - perhaps much less nicely than the old, white British did. 

 

The Spanish were particularly brutal. Go to the Caribbean and try to find an indigenous person...



#73 jonny

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:51 AM

Removed and stashed away. Helps maintains that its fate rests with “the family” and they’ll decide where it goes. When pressed about the likelihood that it will remain stashed away for, well forever, she had no real response.

 

Whose property is the statue? 



#74 rjag

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:51 AM

being that the statue is owned and was donated to the City by a group in the 90's, how is it not being returned to them for safekeeping? Perhaps they would approach a private entity like the Empress or other and that is what she is scared of....we've been down this path too many times with her, she makes a promise to appease folks then does what she wants anyway...this is the nuclear version of the end days of Frank Leonard and his angry 'father knows best' attitude that got him turfed


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#75 Nparker

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:52 AM

Removed and stashed away. Helps maintains that its fate rests with “the family” and they’ll decide where it goes. ..

Why does "the Family" (makes me think of Charles Manson) get to decide? If the CoV no longer wants the statue it should be returned to the Sir John A. MacDonald Society from whom it was given to the city in 1982.


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#76 Mattjvd

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:12 AM

Why does "the Family" (makes me think of Charles Manson) get to decide? If the CoV no longer wants the statue it should be returned to the Sir John A. MacDonald Society from whom it was given to the city in 1982.

Wait, that's not who "the family" refers too? Who is she talking about?


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#77 rmpeers

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:22 AM

So if council is discussing the statue today, are they allowed to vote against The Family?

#78 Danma

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:30 AM

I'd settle for a mayor that showed even an occasional, casual interest in listening to viewpoints other than her own. And I'm not talking about the statue; I mean about everything. The Trump-esque approach may work for her, but she might get more support by occasionally conceding that there are valid viewpoints other than her own.

 

Agreed. I don't have a hate-on for the mayor's policies, but this whole "this is how it's happening, no discussion" attitude is gross, regardless of where you might be on the political spectrum. 

 

On the other hand, I live in Langford, and I don't know if contrary opinions are even brought up to our mayor... :P


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#79 Danma

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:30 AM

So if council is discussing the statue today, are they allowed to vote against The Family?

 

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#80 Bob Fugger

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:53 AM

I have a question about the "cleansing and healing ceremony" being planned by the "City Family" at the site of the statue once it is removed.

 

It's a legal question that I've been curious about for some time: Does anyone know whether these healing ceremonies violate the laws regarding the separation of church and state?

 

Obviously this doesn't count: because white guilt.  I recall a school in Nanaimo (?) last year had a "smudging" ceremony and forced students to attend.  A mother was outraged because of the obvious spiritual nature of the ceremony being rammed down her child's throat.  But ultimately it was allowed to go ahead because of reconciliation or some such.


Edited by Bob Fugger, 09 August 2018 - 11:01 AM.

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