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The Victoria crime thread


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#61 Rorschach

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 07:20 AM

As far as the witness quotes being hearsay... seems to me she is recounting her own perceptions and observations of the bad guy, not repeating someone else's words, so it is not hearsay. It takes no special expertise to perceive drug intoxication, so what she said in the newspaper could be said in court without a problem.

It seems particularly relevant to impeach the statements of the (wife/shackmate/whatever) who has been talking non-stop in the news about what a great father this guy was to his children she didn't give birth to and how he would never do what the police said he did.

By the way, the dead can't be libeled or slandered so the newspaper will be printing all kinds of things they normally would not concerning what people say about this guy.
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#62 Mike K.

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 10:24 AM

The real question is, if this guy attacked a cop several days earlier why was he back on the streets to do it again?

Officer injured in violent struggle
Attack by homeless man results in elbow fracture for constable


BY ROB SHAW Times Colonist staff

A Victoria police constable had his elbow and nose broken when he was attacked by a man who was stomping on the hoods of cars in a residential neighbourhood.

The bizarre scene unfolded in the 300block of Simcoe Street, near Oswego Street, around 9 p.m. on Sunday.Two police officers arrived to find a person they describe as a 36-year-old homeless man jumping up and down on the hoods of cars while screaming, said Insp. Les Sylven.

“The man immediately attacked one of our officers and charged right at him,” said Sylven. “A struggle ensued, a very violent struggle, [and] our officer ends up with a broken elbow, possibly a broken nose, and stitches.”

The officers tried to Taser the man, but it had little effect, said Sylven. Pepper spray and blows from batons were needed to get him under control. Police cars rushed to the area to help the officers being attacked.

The injured constable has only been on the job for about a year and is in his late 20s, said Sylven. He’s scheduled for surgery and is expected to make a full recovery.

Police believe the homeless man suffers mental health issues and a possible drug addiction.

The same man is accused of attacking another police officer last Monday morning outside the Open Door downtown street ministry and shelter.

Only one officer was at the scene of that attack, but managed to put out an “officer in distress” call on his radio as he was slammed against a wall and punched, said Sylven.

It’s rare to have an officer in distress call in Victoria — only about six to 10 a year — but it was a “very violent situation” and the man had essentially gone “berserk,” said Sylven.

That officer, a constable with 12 years experience, was not seriously hurt. Two city bylaw officers helped wrestle the man to the ground to keep the situation under control.

Victoria police were holding their weekly media briefing at the time the distress call went over the radio last Monday. One constable bolted from his seat in the media room and ran full speed down the hallway as multiple police cars sped out of headquarters with sirens blaring.

Jason Elessard was remanded into custody on one count of assaulting a peace officer yesterday. His next court appearance is Feb. 19.

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#63 m0nkyman

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 10:41 AM

The HIV+ and Hep-C positive guy who stabbed me with his needle was out of custody within two hours.

The people who smashed our front window twice had broken into over a hundred businesses in three weeks and had been arrested three times.

We're on catch and release here in Victoria.

#64 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 11:32 AM

It’s rare to have an officer in distress call in Victoria — only about six to 10 a year — but it was a “very violent situation” and the man had essentially gone “berserk,” said Sylven.

Berserk: Is that a medical term?

Anyone remember the video game (1980)?:



The best line ever! "Coins detected in pocket"

Features
Probably the best-remembered feature of Berzerk is that the robots talk. Berzerk was one of the first video games to use speech synthesis. In attract mode, the game will taunt potential players with the phrase "Coins detected in pocket". Evil Otto's entrance into play is announced with "Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert!" Successful destruction of the robots and escape from the maze results in the lament, "The humanoid must not escape!" If the player escapes the maze without destroying all the robots however, the remaining ones will tease, "Chicken! Fight like a robot!"

In 1980 computer voice compression was extremely expensive—estimates were that this cost the manufacturer US$1,000 per word; the English version had a thirty-word vocabulary. Stern nevertheless did not spare this expense, and some non-English versions were made, for example a Spanish version in which the robots would say "Intruso alerta" and "El humanoide no debe escapar," as well as an un-released Esperanto version in which the robots would say "Truidi Vigla" and "Variolo, ataki eco~roboto".



Description
The player controls a green stick-figure, representing a "humanoid." Using a joystick (and a firing button to activate a laser-like weapon), the player navigates a maze filled with many robots, who fire lasers back at the player character. A player can be killed by being shot, by running into a robot or an exploding robot, by running into an electrified wall of the maze, or by being touched by the player's nemesis, "Evil Otto."

The function of Evil Otto, represented by a bouncing smiley face, is to quicken the pace of the game. Otto is unusual with regard to games of the period, in that there is no way to kill him. Otto can go through walls with impunity, and is attracted to the player character. If robots remain in the maze Otto moves slowly, about half as fast as the humanoid, but he speeds up to match the humanoid's speed once all the robots are killed.

The player advances by escaping from the maze through an opening at one of the far walls. Each robot destroyed is worth 50 points. Ideally, all the robots in the current maze have been destroyed before the player escapes, thus gaining the player a per-maze bonus (ten points per robot). The game has 64,000 mazes, and each level is designed to be more difficult to finish than the last. It has only one controller, but two-player games can be accomplished by alternating at the joystick.

<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#65 aastra

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 12:08 PM

It’s rare to have an officer in distress call in Victoria...


The same man is accused of attacking another police officer last Monday morning outside the Open Door downtown street ministry and shelter.

Only one officer was at the scene of that attack, but managed to put out an “officer in distress” call on his radio as he was slammed against a wall and punched...


Let's not forget this incident from December, 2006:

Police struggle with violent man as troubled radio system fails

BY SANDRA MCCULLOCH Times Colonist staff

Staff at Streetlink Emergency Shelter called 911 yesterday when three Victoria police officers who were fighting a mentally ill man couldn’t get their pleas for backup to reach dispatchers on their troubled radio system.


So was it the same guy in all three incidents?

#66 Mike K.

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 08:03 AM

If this had happened in Esquimalt in the wake of the police shooting (this occurred near the shooting area) the media would have been all over it.

Man slashed on Victoria street

Times Colonist staff

A 48-year-old man is nursing his wounds after a rough Valentine’s night.

While standing outside a Quadra/Hillside-area convenience store about 10:30 p.m., he was approached by a man who demanded cash. When he refused to comply, he was slashed twice in the arm with a utility knife. One of the cuts required stitches. The suspect is described as 18 to 20 years old, five-foot-eight to five-foot-10, and clean-shaven. He was wearing a lightgrey hooded sweatshirt with the hood pulled up, and may have short, blond hair. He ran off when a vehicle drove by.

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#67 Holden West

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 04:56 PM

CBC Latest Interviews

February 15
Keeping crime at bay. We hear how life is changing in the historic Victoria neighbouhood of James Bay.
[url=http://www.cbc.ca/ontheisland/media/20070215JAMES_BA.ram:1aebb]Listen to the interview (runs 9:05)[/url:1aebb]
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#68 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 12:28 PM

I don't like the cops issuing a blanket "give them whatever they want" message. Every case has unique situations. If every robber knows there is no chance of resistance, he is more likely to rob. If he might encounter a baseball bat vs. his knife, he might think twice about whether he really need some more crack that particular day. I don't recommend hand-to-hand combat like the Winnipeg case cited, when the perp has a gun though.

Fighting back
Streak of resistance to armed robberies in Victoria

* * * * Rob Shaw, Times Colonist
Published: Monday, February 26, 2007

A society with a hero complex and unrealistic expectations of police can often motivate victims to resist a robbery and sometimes even fight back, say experts.

Those may have been some of the factors in a bizarre streak of resistance to armed robbers in downtown Victoria last week.

Clerks at two different 7-Eleven stores simply refused to listen to a robber last Monday, even though he threatened one with a knife and the other with a gun (although the gun was never shown).

Later that day, a 54-year-old woman told a man with a knife she wouldn’t surrender her purse.

And a day earlier, two Subway workers at the Blanshard and Bay street restaurant had their hands cut when they tried to physically stop a knife-wielding man from stealing the cash register till and chased him from the store.

Police have since arrested suspects linked to all four cases.

Many businesses train their employees not to resist a robbery. As well, police have long warned against trying to stop a criminal in action.

So why do people do it?

“None of us really know until we’re put into that situation,” said Neil Boyd, a criminologist at Simon Fraser University.

Much of how a victim reacts is automatic and not a conscious decision, according to literature from the Greater Victoria Police Victims Services, which counsels people affected by crimes.

While it is common for someone to fear for their safety, it’s also common to become angry, the organization says.

Anger combined with a hero complex can be a powerful motivator.

Our society loves to hear stories of heroes who take the law into their own hands to get justice, said Benedikt Fischer, a criminal justice and police expert at the University of Victoria.

“There is a bit of a sense of vigilantism, especially with petty things, that we’re not as protected as well as we ought to be,” said Fischer.

“The truth of the matter is if you’re running a little sandwich store and there’s a [robber] there, even if you manage to dial 911 the odds are if you want anything to happen you probably have to do it yourself before the cops are there.”

It’s unrealistic to expect police to appear in the few seconds it takes a crime to unfold, said Fischer.

“It will take them a natural amount of time to get there and chances are within that time the whole thing will be over.”

But that doesn’t mean you should go toe-to-toe with a criminal.

“I think it’s absolutely foolish to risk your life or serious injury for property,” said Boyd.

“The people who are committing these crimes are hardly brilliant criminal strategists. They are risking themselves for a very small amount of money. The potential victim is falling into the same way of thinking as the perpetrator.”

It’s fairly unusual for anyone, even those who are accustomed to using violence, to take on a robber with a knife or a gun, he said.

Despite the recent examples in Victoria, police say they are not aware of an increasing trend.

“It’s a difficult question and it comes up time and time again, should people get involved?” said Victoria police Insp. Les Sylven. “Our message is we don’t want people getting hurt over property-related crime.

“A great witness is more valuable to us than an injured victim.”

Despite the best intentions, sometimes a confrontation can end tragically.

A 19-year-old convenience store clerk in Winnipeg was shot and killed as he struggled with a gunman during a hold-up last Thursday. A 17-year-old woman was stabbed and killed while working at a Montreal gas station last month.

The B.C. government was spurred to action to specifically protect late-night workers from such things as robberies earlier this year after Grant de Patie, 24, was run over and killed at a Maple Ridge gas station in 2005 when trying to stop a teenager from driving off without paying for $12.30 worth of gasoline.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#69 Rorschach

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 12:51 PM

I read that article today and I likewise am of the belief that there IS more resistance lately. I think it's all related to the general outrage over the homeless situation and the needle exchange and the enablers such as Reverend Tysick and his ilk.

It has reached the point where it is threatening enough to sway the natural flight or fight reaction over to the fight side and away from the flight side. We've bent over so far backward for the derilicts it the same a falling flat on our face. I think we've collectively discovered that a flight reaction will not do us any good, so now fighting is the only choice.

In spite of the stories in the newspaper and on TV the actual chance of being a victim of crime in Victoria is quite low. And the police service is very, very good -- downright exceptional. The police identify, arrest or solve the crimes with a very high clearance rate. It is not the police letting us down -- IMHO it is the judiciary. There seems to be no level of crime, no level of violence, no level of sociopathy that our BC judges are unable to rationalize away to justify unimaginably lienient punishment.

Even the mass murderer on trial now with overwhelming proof and a record number of victims and crimes... I would not be shocked if a BC judge left open the possibility of parole or overruled jury determinatons of guilt for some charges or some other ultra-rationalization to justify punishing him less than he should be punished.

If my belief is accurate... what can the general citizenry do to alter the behavior of judges to alter this trend? Won't it take some very clear legislation that can't be rationalized away by judges? I'm talking a radical change in philosophy for the bench. Mercy has its place and I would never say there are no occasions where being merciful is the right thing to do. However, the availability of this option to judges seems to me to give them license to be merciful all the time if there is any possible reason. I think this must change if were are going to make a difference in crime.

#70 thevibranator

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 01:02 PM

Most of the violence I've witnessed in Victoria has been perpetrated by members of the middle class, not homeless people; Diego's/the Fox would be a good example.

Pickton is innocent until proven guilty even if he's already been convicted by the press.

#71 Holden West

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 01:08 PM

What the hell? Subway Inc. made $9 BILLION USD in revenue last year. And these kids are putting their lives at risk to save the boss fifty bucks from the till?

Likewise old ladies holding on to their purses for dear life (literally). The chances of them falling down are high. The chances of them breaking a bone is high. The chances that broken bone will take ten years off their life is high.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#72 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 01:19 PM

^ Looks like Holden is a Surrender Monkey...
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#73 aastra

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 01:28 PM

Those may have been some of the factors in a bizarre streak of resistance to armed robbers in downtown Victoria last week.


So in one week, potential victims of crime resisted:

- a 7-Eleven hold-up involving a knife
- a 7-Eleven hold-up (possibly) involving a gun
- an attempted purse snatching on the street
- a Subway hold-up/knife attack

The media finds it bizarre that people would resist muggers and hold-up men, but doesn't find it bizarre that little old Victoria is plagued by so many of these problems in the first place? This is livability?

Four bizarre incidents are singled out because the victims dared to resist. So how many other ordinary incidents were there in which victims complied without argument?

And is it really so bizarre that law-abiding citizens are trying to wrest their community back from increasingly shameless criminal elements?

I'd say it's much more bizarre that the media has such a casual attitude toward it all.

#74 m0nkyman

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 01:38 PM

OK, I've deleted three really pissed off comments so far.

Let's just say that getting told to surrender by the police and media is not just pissing me off, it's counter to the actual facts and statistics about what works. Resistance works. Always has.

#75 G-Man

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 01:50 PM

I think the best way is not to get robbed in the first place. Good defence and all that.

Visit my blog at: https://www.sidewalkingvictoria.com 

 

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#76 Holden West

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 01:56 PM

The general rule of self-preservation says that getting between a junkie and his fix is asking for trouble. Fighting back against some crazed taser-proof psycho is nuts.

Except for me of course. Anyone tangling with me is gonna get whupped so hard when they stop spinning their clothes will be out of style.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#77 Mike K.

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 02:04 PM

In spite of the stories in the newspaper and on TV the actual chance of being a victim of crime in Victoria is quite low. And the police service is very, very good -- downright exceptional.


Put me down for two muggings, and in both instances the police arrived after someone called them up. They shouldn't have bothered because they did absolutely NOTHING. I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, once with a guy mistaking me for someone else and another time a drunken idiot thinking that I had said something to insult him.

Spend enough time downtown and you'll find yourself in a situation leading up to a verbal confrontation or an assault.

Actually, come to think of it I was downtown yesterday at 6PM. A junkie that had been sitting by the entrance of the old Telus building on Yates was exchanging words with people standing at the nearby bus stop and at one point she swung at a women for no reason. Afterwards she started crying and clambered off towards Douglas. Had her aim been a little better an innocent individual would have been assaulted. That's all it takes.

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#78 Rob Randall

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 02:19 PM

That's an issue I will be bringing up at an informal community meeting on Downtown safey issues the DRA is hosting tomorrow at 7 p.m. at Police Headquarters at Caledonia. All DRA members and potential members are encouraged to attend.

I believe an attempt to harm like Derf witnessed is justification for a call to 911.

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#79 G-Man

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 03:06 PM

I have yet to be bothered by either a junkie or anyone else downtown. I was walking on Cormorant street yesterday an the crowd just ignored me. I suppose I have just been VERY lucky.

The worst stuff I ever saw downtown was in the 90s when I worked at a late night pizza place. The things people will do if someone gets the last pep/mush pizza is scary. Having a foot long pizza knife usually convinced them that they would lose but a couple of staff did get hit and I swear we used to have to fill walls every couple of months.

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#80 Rorschach

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 03:38 PM

People win the lottery on a regular basis and planes crash somewhat regularly -- but the chance of it happening are very low. As I have mentioned the main issue in Victoria is FEAR of crime, rather than actual crime. You truly have a very low probability of being a victim of crime. The crime rate here IS very low.

As far as the decision to resist, it increases your risk of injury or death substantially. But, that said, it depends on how well equipped you may be to assume the risk. If you have a shotgun handy and know how to use it, then forcible resistance makes more sense against a thug with a knife.

But, the safest strategy is to keep your head and neither resist agressively nor comply too passively. A calm, matter-of-fact compliance is the safest way to survive such an encounter.

Agression forces an escalation of violence and the criminal will likely get more violent if you do. If you are too weak and passive and overly compliant, this likewise encourages the criminal to get more violent since they feed off your high level of fear and accellerate violence against you assured that you will not fight back and from the high that comes from power over others.

As the police spokesperson said, a good witness is the best thing the police can have in these situations. It's very hard to do. However, if you can do it, you have a very good chance of survival.

As far as Pickton being "innnocent until proven guilty" -- such things are legal fictions that have no application outside a court of law. If it were literally true more defendants would be standing up and saying, "If I'm innnocent until proven guilty, why am I here? Let me go until you prove it." It simply means that the people have the obligation to prove guilt and the accused does not bear the burden of proving his innocence.

But what innocent man would not present proof of innocence if they had some? Just because he has no legal burden to prove his innocence -- would that justify not presenting such proof is there was some?

The thing about innocent people is the fact that 99 44/100 percent of the time there is no evidence of their guilt whatsoever. Mistaken identification accounts for the 56/100 percent of the time where innocent people have some evidence against them.

I'm sticking by my original belief that the judges are to blame for what has gone wrong with addressing crime.

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