563 replies to this topic

[tjv]

What a stupid idiotic decision that is.  On the plus side Trudeau and Horgan will out be out of office soon.

 

Agreed, this is a national embarrassment!

[Mike K.]

During this morning's 10AM press conference Horgan said he does not feel responsible for costing the taxpayers of Canada billions of dollars and says the responsibility lays with the federal and Alberta governments.

[rjag]

During this morning's 10AM press conference Horgan said he does not feel responsible for costing the taxpayers of Canada billions of dollars and says the responsibility lays with the federal and Alberta governments.

 

BULLSH!T

[sdwright.vic]

Who's to say that Kinder Morgan is not one of those investors interested in buying it (back) once Horgan is out of power? This could be an awesome chess move as well.

Nah... not that naive (me that is).

[tedward]

What a stupid idiotic decision that is.  On the plus side Trudeau and Horgan will out be out of office soon.

 

Agreed, this is a national embarrassment!

 

Trudeau makes a ridiculous decision that was in no way necessary and somehow it's Horgan's fault?!?

 

I know partisanship is at ridiculous levels currently but Premier Horgan has not said the pipeline cannot and will not be built. The BC Government has been doing it's job to protect British Columbia by ASKING QUESTIONS before this project gets built and somehow this is a "bad thing"?

 

[Mike K.]

The Premier campaigned on killing the project and that played a part in costing him the election.

Horgan wanted this dead. He was forced to ask questions only after he was told post election that he didn’t have the power to kill the project.

[rjag]

Trudeau makes a ridiculous decision that was in no way necessary and somehow it's Horgan's fault?!?

 

I know partisanship is at ridiculous levels currently but Premier Horgan has not said the pipeline cannot and will not be built. The BC Government has been doing it's job to protect British Columbia by ASKING QUESTIONS before this project gets built and somehow this is a "bad thing"?

 

Oh come on! Seriously? We all know these court questions are tactics designed to wear your opponent down and frustrate them in giving up. Absolutely Horgan and the Greens and the radical wing of the NDP own todays decision

 

The question would be answered and it wouldnt satisfy the GreeNDP so they would ask another question and every time they did this it adds months and months to the project proceeding and costing KM millions every month in carrying costs. They were going to continue to put hurdles in the way and frustrate KM by the death of a thousand cuts

 

The Feds basically did the same thing with Energy East except a bit more eloquently by moving the goalposts after the approvals and demanding they account for all the upstream emissions from who uses their product. They basically frustrated Energy East into walking away...

Edited by rjag, 29 May 2018 - 11:22 AM.

[jonny]

So now TransCanada or Enbridge will swoop in and buy this thing for $0.50 on the dollar next year and Trudeau and Morneau will somehow try to call that some sort of major success.

This is a seriously bad day for our country. I love Canada, but this is not how modern first world countries should operate. Trudeau should be booted out of office on this issue alone.

[spanky123]

So now TransCanada or Enbridge will swoop in and buy this thing for $0.50 on the dollar next year and Trudeau and Morneau will somehow try to call that some sort of major success.

This is a seriously bad day for our country. I love Canada, but this is not how modern first world countries should operate. Trudeau should be booted out of office on this issue alone.

 

Highly doubt it. I think that the oil companies will be quite happy to stick Canada with the pipeline. They will have huge leverage over the Government on pricing as the Liberals will be desperate to generate income and the other pipeline companies will get lots of pricey work tossed their way without any of the aggravation of ownership since the Government will have no capacity to actually maintain or operate the line.

 

To add insult to injury, a news item on BNN claimed that the Feds planned to tap the CPP and other pension funds to pay for the costs.

Edited by spanky123, 29 May 2018 - 05:00 PM.

[LJ]

Horgan has a tiny little tool box with one tiny little tool in it, once he loses the reference case he throws up his hands and declares "I tried, I really really tried."

[LJ]

Ridiculous. A nationalized oil pipeline. What a joke.

Hey daddy did it, it is sort of the family business now.

[vortoozo]

During this morning's 10AM press conference Horgan said he does not feel responsible for costing the taxpayers of Canada billions of dollars and says the responsibility lays with the federal and Alberta governments.

 

Kinder Morgan no longer had a business case and wanted out. That's hardly the BC government's fault. Simply the scapegoat. The government says they want to buy and essentially flip it. If there was a proper business case, taxpayers wouldn't need to be the middleman. The new US project with much larger capacity has dwarfed this project. There is no overseas buyer. This is against Canadian commitments re: Paris accord & FN reconciliation. And continues to have enormous ecological risk. And now, a financial risk too. No winners here.

[rjag]

^ I thought the existing pipe was oversubscribed with a 2 year wait-list and the new pipe was already 50% contracted.

 

The business was always there, the political climate and uncertainty is what created this situation. Capital is liquid and will flow to the path of least resistance. Why would any energy business want to come to Canada under this type of political environment, they'll go elsewhere like the US with its lower tax regime and politicians that want to collect royalty revenues to fund their pet projects. The enviro's won, they frustrated the company to walk away, heck I wouldnt want to do business in Canada these days. Now we all own a pipeline that private money was perfectly willing to fund and risk, now all the risk is on taxpayers which takes away billions of $'s that could have gone to roads, rail, clean water programs on FN lands etc....

 

Canada just keeps hamstringing themselves while the rest of the world moves on. Socialism at its finest 

 

Meanwhile if the enviros think that the oil is going to stop because of this should realise the following http://www.worldstop...xports-country/ and the plans are to triple oilsands exports by 2040

 

Seems the best way to reconcile with FN is to provide them a recurring revenue stream, jobs and get them off the public tit. The 43 FN's that signed onto this sensed opportunity. Heck even the 9 Island FN's that signed on would benefit....

Edited by rjag, 30 May 2018 - 06:56 AM.

[tjv]

I am assuming that means gas prices in BC should fall now?  Wasn't Alberta squeezing our supply to try and force our hand?

[jonny]

Kinder Morgan themselves said the business case was in jeapordy because of legal, regulatory and political uncertainty in BC. Would you open a business in a place that vowed to use every tool at it's disposal to kill your business?

The business case was solid a year ago. Let's not forget that pipelines have customers signed on to 20+ year supply contracts. KM was required by regulators to prove it had customers going out at least 15 years. They did that.

So, what changed? The GreeNDP CSA.

[jonny]

To put it succinctly: no private sector company can be expected to bear the risks of building an oil pipeline in Canada. That's the political climate here.

[lanforod]

The real reason Canada will never run out of oil... we can't ship it out fast enough!

[Jackerbie]

I am assuming that means gas prices in BC should fall now?  Wasn't Alberta squeezing our supply to try and force our hand?

 

Nope. Alberta was moving legislation through that would allow it squeeze our supply, but that has not happened yet.

 

The actual supply squeeze has been due to scheduled upgrades and maintenance to both the Parkland refinery (Burnaby) and refineries in Cherry Point (Washington).

[jonny]

Kinder Morgan bought the existing TM pipeline for $377M in 2007. We just bought it for $4.5 billion. What a nightmare.

[Jackerbie]

^ Not sure Ezra Levant has it correctly, and I'm no accountant, but the line item he's referring to is a $377M "goodwill impairment charge." So doesn't that mean KM paid $377M more than "fair value" of TMs assets? The document is here: https://www.kindermo...3Q_Rpt_2012.pdf

 

Any accountants in here who can clear this one up?
 

Edited by Jackerbie, 30 May 2018 - 08:32 AM.