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How to build more awareness on the need for Abundant Housing in Victoria outside of VV?


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#1 rsnxmt

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 09:19 PM

I realize that VV has a YIMBY element to it, but the forum nature, broad scope, and longevity of VV make it somewhat inaccessible. It is a challenge to find information and there's just a ton of history to read through.

I currently live downtown with my wife and toddler son. I think there are more people like me who are under a lot of strain to find a life for their family in Victoria but are squeezed in 1 or 2 bedroom condos but left with limited options given the lack of supply and soaring home prices. It's great to see so many towers going up in the downtown area, but almost none of the units are greater in size/rooms than what we have. It seems an impossible jump to find something greater than 2 bedrooms - since it seems 3 bedroom units/rowhouses/townhouses aren't that common perhaps there's also a problem of "missing middle".

 

Given the election this fall, I could see value in a YIMBY group resource that provides some indicator about which Victoria councilors are more progressive and which are not for promoting abundant housing - especially for those who just don't have time to dig into it if this is an issue that is important to them. Nevertheless, I'm sure a lot more information could be provided in a clear format like abundant housing vancouver to help bring visibility to this specific issue. There's lots of other nuanced topics such as the bizarre community zoning brought up on Sidewalking Victoria.

 

I can't imagine doing this by myself. Does this kind of message make sense? Is anyone interested in contributing to this? Is there value in making this effort to reach those who aren't in the VV community?

 

 

 

 


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#2 RFS

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 11:15 PM

Its a great idea and even just something like building an email list that you could mobilize when it comes to petitioning council in support of a project or showing up at hearings to voice support

#3 Mike K.

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 06:29 AM

As we get closer to the election and the candidates start becoming clear we will be identifying exactly the sorts of candidates you speak about.

Come election time the traffic on this site starts to really pick up and folks start reading through the election discussions.

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#4 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 06:56 AM

I simply think the market does not demand 3-bedroom multi family housing. You can find that in a house only 5-15 minutes from the core.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#5 Mike K.

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 07:07 AM

That is true, in that developers can sell one-bedroom and bachelor condos all day long. Two-bed units are harder to move, three bed even more so. And given the square footage costs of construction lenders will also expect or want more smaller units.

Take the Lyra project as an example. All two-bedroom units. The project quality and location are fantastic, but the market can only absorb so many large units and the project continues to have unsold inventory. Had they been one-bedroom and two-bedroom buildings both would all be sitting at 90% sold.

That being said, use Citified’s listing filter and select three-bedrooms as an option. You’ll see what’s out there with three-bedrooms among new rentals and condos.
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#6 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 07:24 AM

Some of the 000's buildings in the Songhess have 3-br. but they are made more for wealthy retirees, not folks with young families.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#7 G-Man

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 08:36 AM

I think it would not be good for the city if all families had to live in Langford or Colwood. I suspect that the fact that 2 bedroom and 3 bedroom units are proportionately more expensive than a 1 bedroom units is the only reason they are not selling as fast as 2 bedroom units. If a three bedroom condo was a reasonable discount from a 3 bedroom house (which it should be) they would sell as fast as 3 bedroom houses.
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Visit my blog at: https://www.sidewalkingvictoria.com 

 

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#8 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 08:44 AM

 

 

 If a three bedroom condo was a reasonable discount from a 3 bedroom house (which it should be) they would sell as fast as 3 bedroom houses.

 

 

 

They are in brand new stock.  But people have a choice.  Brand new 3-br condo for $900,000, or 3-br 1972 house in Gorge/Burnside, with yard, for $800,000.   


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<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#9 Casual Kev

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 08:53 AM

Taking a peek at listings, there just aren't many 3+ bed condos or townhomes on the market. I'm speculating this is because families with kids have traditionally desired single family homes in more suburban locations, and real estate prices didn't justify building much of a stock for either type of housing.

 

Nowadays there's actually a decent amount of townhouses being built, but the "family condo" so to speak is still lacking due to reasons Mike pointed out. I see the Lyra condos going for $780K minimum, but literally two blocks east you throw in a few extra bucks and get a brand new townhouse twice the size (https://www.rew.ca/p...enue-saanich-bc). Even when compared to a more "budget" project like Vivid at Yates the square footage is still a lot cheaper. I have little knowledge about construction costs so I'm not sure why the $/sqft differs so much (materials? zoning premium? amenities?).



#10 lanforod

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 08:53 AM

It's been said many times. What we need is to start replacing these 60/70s houses with row homes (3/4 bedroom). Council needs to make zoning amenable to doing so and ensure there are no barriers. There should be no requirement for stratas for row homes either.


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#11 rsnxmt

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 09:05 AM

Some of the 000's buildings in the Songhess have 3-br. but they are made more for wealthy retirees, not folks with young families.

family design is also part of my concern. I'm actually very encouraged about the 3bd units in 1488 cook st, along with the playground and communal areas.

I agree this is a smaller part of the market but I also think putting in a handful of 3bd units (that aren't penthouses) in a development as large as 989 (for example) would make a world of difference. I believe Vancouver has a requirement for 3% of new units be 3 bedroom. I don't know if that just goes into penthouses though. The number of families in downtown Vancouver seems to be increasing (I didn't know there was such a thing as toddler density!)

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#12 spanky123

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 09:07 AM

Taking a peek at listings, there just aren't many 3+ bed condos or townhomes on the market. I'm speculating this is because families with kids have traditionally desired single family homes in more suburban locations, and real estate prices didn't justify building much of a stock for either type of housing.

 

Nowadays there's actually a decent amount of townhouses being built, but the "family condo" so to speak is still lacking due to reasons Mike pointed out. I see the Lyra condos going for $780K minimum, but literally two blocks east you throw in a few extra bucks and get a brand new townhouse twice the size (https://www.rew.ca/p...enue-saanich-bc). Even when compared to a more "budget" project like Vivid at Yates the square footage is still a lot cheaper. I have little knowledge about construction costs so I'm not sure why the $/sqft differs so much (materials? zoning premium? amenities?).

 

Families don't fit into the newly wed or nearly dead demographics of the downtown core!



#13 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 09:13 AM

It's been said many times. What we need is to start replacing these 60/70s houses with row homes (3/4 bedroom). Council needs to make zoning amenable to doing so and ensure there are no barriers. There should be no requirement for stratas for row homes either.

 

I like this very much.  But where is the best place to start this, geograhically?    


Edited by VicHockeyFan, 22 April 2018 - 09:13 AM.

<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#14 Mike K.

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 09:16 AM

Well, Abstract is trying to build a row of townhomes in Rockland as part of the 1201 Fort Street development, and opposition to those units has been quite fierce. Replacing single-family-homes with rowhousing won't be easy.


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#15 Nparker

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 09:27 AM

...But where is the best place to start this, geographically?    

1000 block of Mason Street comes to mind.

 

Edit: That was partly tongue-in-cheek and I realize the houses that currently occupy this block aren't really SFH's anymore. Still, if any area cried out for row houses this block is it.


Edited by Nparker, 22 April 2018 - 09:29 AM.


#16 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 09:27 AM

It might be easier in Gordon Head, or along Shelbourne etc.
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<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#17 lanforod

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 09:42 AM

Gordon Head doesn't make sense to me for that.  Fernwood, North Park, Fairfield to get areas closer to downtown, and for further out of town, replacing older homes along major streets like Quadra, McKenzie and Shelbourne.

McKenzie by UVic is full of crappy houses that should be ripped down and changed to row-homes.


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#18 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 09:45 AM

Maybe some of the straight streets in Oaklands?
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<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#19 lanforod

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 10:22 AM

Maybe some of the straight streets in Oaklands?

 

Yeah. Generally, I would prefer main streets more than in-fill. Bay St. itself would be great for this.



#20 rsnxmt

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 11:46 AM

I like where the discussion is going, but perhaps these details might be more suitable to another thread.

 

To be more specific, how might a housing YIMBY website work? I imagine at least some basic information to help build awareness on scarcity issues would be helpful. It would be helpful to have specific facts and details to show I think.

I am sure this would attract backlash and it would be too much work to have any kind of direct moderation/ comments on the website.

 

Unless I am mistaken it seems like VV's brand is presented as neutral generally speaking (posts on twitter, facebook, etc) so could it be linked to VV (for discussion)? Is this fair to VV?

 

Should there be a few members to review the content to go on the YIMBY website? I like the general tone on abundant housing vancouver and it would be important to remain rational in the face of expected NIMBY (and other political?) backlash.

 

Does anyone have any other concerns on risks or how the information would be presented? e.g. risk of assumed ownership of this YIMBY site by VV that would hurt VV's apparent neutrality; risk that by posting which councillors are more progressive and which are not may tell the NIMBY's also who to vote for etc.

 

keep up the discussion!



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